Brundageba

They said: " We met a lot of conartests who live in Boquete and try to convince people that this is a great place to raise kids, very safe, and that the economy is booming and it is easy to make a living" _____________________ a lot of con artests : meaning more than one? trying to convince: what would be their gain? Very safe: there were home invasions before we got here 8.5 yrs ago and since Panama became Panama my hunch is bars on windows were the norm for most in the middle class. Did they even visit? Booming economy: Better than most....but that does not insure you can earn a living enough to support your family, educate the kids and afford health care

Sorry for the entire family. Moving here with your stuff then moving back will cost them financially as well as emotionally. The children are left with exposure to a bitterness their parents express towards foreign countries and their people. That's unfortunate. If I had that mindset garnered from my parents I doubt I'd be here . We've had a happy 8.5 years and in spite of dealing with changing laws and crime ...we will enjoy ourselves here . Rolling with the punches is just part of life...anywhere. if we leave, we will leave happy...not bitter nor angry. If will just be the start of a new adventure.

The problem is...the system is broke. When we can..we fly back and get our work done in the states on Medicare. (sigh)...what can ya do? tis what it is.

Re: Corps and the ease of passing on property after the death of a spouse. Corporations seemed that way to us as well...then. It seemed like a real good idea actually. We bought our home that was already in a corporation. Transfer was easy. The game changer was when property held in Corporations was by necessity of a new law suddenly no longer anonymous. Anonymous Bearer Shares had to be converted to shares with names on it. Now there's an identity attached to property. If that person dies, there are now Probate issues. That's my take anyway. Laws change. Bill and I just sent the form off for our Marriage Certificate for then an Apostilled document to Certify marriage here in Panama. By the time that comes back and then goes back for the Apostille and through process here,a year will have passed before Bill and I (married now almost 50 years) are officially married here. If either one of us drops dead before that happens, neither one of us us is the surviving spouse as the law sees it here. Oh, it can be cleared up...BUT that will take time in Probate as documents are gathered. (key:"time" in Probate) Foundation...expensive as it is ( at our age...and all things considered) is most likely our best immediate option to reduce a horrible headache for a surviving spouse. I strongly doubt either Bill nor I will stay here after one or the other passes away. We would want to sell all we own and go back to the USA. I say that because care for the elderly and as well escalation of crime here make the decision to die here not as desirable an option for us as we once thought.

Recent post on .Ning: "We're leaving"................... "We decided to move, we have little kids and realized pretty fast it is not safe to raise kids here. We met a lot of conartists who live in Boquete and try to convince people that this is a great place to raise kids, very safe, and that the economy is booming here and it's easy to make a living. Completely untrue!!! Where we live in the US it is very safe, and you do not need bars in the windows nor security systems. I have traveled a lot, and I dislike Panama the most as people constantly try to rip you off and lie like crazy. By the way, I am originally from Europe so I know how life is both in Europe and US. I have never met a culture that is so rude and openly hostile towards white people. Living in denial does not excuse you from reality. Sooner or later reality will make you pay." _______________________________________________ I just read the above a few minutes ago and was interested to see when the first post on Ning appeared from this individual. It was April 2015. Unfortunate that a failure to do prior research before moving an entire family lock, stock and barrel to a foreign country ends up in a rant against the people of that country and the country itself. This family is leaving angry. By their perception they have been ripped off. They are returning back to their prior home where bars on windows are not necessary nor are security systems...and there, nobody rips you off nor cons you. People there are not rude nor openly hostile. Well I hope it works out that way for them. This is an example of what so many of us predicted not so very long ago. My question is...where did they get their information prior to leaving and settling here with their children?

If a year in Probate is usual...then would it be true that your home could not be put on the market until it has finished the Probate procedure?.... Sorry this may seem to be a no-brainer but I'd like the answer on it. Also the 10-15% of the value to the attorney seems a bit heavy. I'd like to hear more on that as well.

Bill and I as well want to thank Bud and Marcelyn for their hard work. It's on-going and a thankless sorta job. Well...WE thank you and appreciate all the time and effort and (?$$..dunno) you both have put into CL. It's well organized, and thoughtfully run. You have always been helpful to me personally when I needed it in learning how to navigate here. Hats off !

Bill told me today after a quick trip to town that some of it is already open. Yipee.

Yes. RD is your better choice. Prompt information on crimes to members. Secured data base that is much more comprehensive. Years of experience and knowledge. Follow up with customers who have utilized his service, ongoing until the case is well in the hands of justice. I know i can call him 24/7 ...and receive the help/information I need. All of that is extremely important these days. If you have moved 2 mos ago, filed a change of addy and as yet are not 100% sure the service has registered that...then you may not have the service you think you have. When I press the "call Rodney button"...I KNOW help is on the way...to my house here where i live.

Talking about mindset of children who have learned a life of crime very early. Rio's the end of the story that is just beginning here.

YES !~ Well said. Get the DVD " City of God" to get a feel for the mentality of these kid criminals. It's a documentary on all the kid gangs from communities that surround Rio in Brazil. It's very difficult to truly comprehend the mindset of the kid behind the gun. This movie was a real eye opener for Bill and I and I thank Keith Woolford for telling us about it. When Joe raised his hands in a gesture of surrender...what happened?...they shot him dead on the spot. Consider Marion Clamp and how her life has changed. We are on our own here.

Good question ! My thoughts as well.

We pay our annual tasa unica at the bank as well. Our attorney ( as did our previous attorney) charges $300/yr to do essentially nothing but be our resident agent. Penny, you are very fortunate to have your atty Angulo who charges nothing. Today I prepared for mailing our request for marriage license for apostille purposes to be sent to Florida. This, in order to get our official "you're ole married farts card" from this country. Might as well. We're entirely too old to be considered single folks running loose in a foreign country !! (laughing) For those of you who did not attend the latest Tues meeting, here in Panama departments don't talk with one another. The marriage license apostilled we gave to Immigration stays there. When we got our E-Cedula we were listed as "single" on that document. For the purpose of making a Will it certainly helps if you are married to your husband in the eyes of the Probate court. Tuesday Bill and I were enlightened that's for sure !...50 yr old wedding pictures don't count

Certainly gets my attention ! Just blasting through a huge glass window at a moving target ...then shooting again ( most likely) is horrifying. Makes you realize how very vulnerable we are here and as well makes us give pause to think about how our future might look moving forward. ( we're not getting any younger !) Until this last one, we NEVER discussed selling and leaving. Now we consider it. I doubt we will for as long as we are active surfers here....but at this point departure is up for grabs on the discussion table. Keith Woolford told my husband and I to get the DVD "City of God" and look at it. True stories about the youth gangs surrounding Rio in Brazil. We did get it and I can say it was an eye opener . All of a sudden you get a glimpse of the mentality of these kids and the evolution of lawlessness. It's BIG TIME serious business and not to be taken lightly. If this country does not do something quick, it will be very difficult to unravel here. Rio is the example of just that.

Shooting to kill through a window is serious business...and that's could have happened to this man. He lived thank God, BUT will probably have a huge hospital bill and as well an ankle that will never be the same, and who knows about the bullet in his back. This latest situation is an eye opener. My husband and I certainly wish Mr Moore a speedy recovery.

My husband LOVES Ivan's. I think because they call him "guapo". He came home not long ago and told me he was not the only guapo doing business there....other guys got called guapo and he thought he was certainly more guapo then they were ( I'm laughing). That kind of burst his enthusiasm bubble ! OK that said, that family there at Ivans is #1 in our book and we LOVE giving them our business. ( and it doesn't hurt either to greeted: "Hello handsome"...when you are kissin 70 !. )

Good question Judy....

Yes. That's pretty much what I was saying. Experienced hikers who do that hike will take shortcuts...or in this case attempt to find a new location. Didn't work out so well in this case.

Friends were up there when these folks were. They said almost 70 people were at the top at sunrise when they got there. They went up the Boquete side at midnight and once at the top decided to go down the Cerro Punta direction. ( this was something they had discussed with us before they left) My husband and I then drove over that way to be over there as they came down. That allowed us to have constant cell reception. They texted us all the way. Once down they told us the trail was well marked and that getting lost didn't seem to be an issue. While waiting for them we noticed folks coming back down taking shortcuts. These were locals who appeared to have done this before. Bottom line...our friends told us it would be a nightmare to be lost up there. I doubt I'd ever attempt it without a guide.

Probate. 1. Cost to you: If 10-15% of the value goes to the attorney , that's a lot of money! 2.Time: Our own attorney told us Probate can take as long as 8 years. Now that more cases will go to Probate in that Bearer shares once anonymous are now nominative, the wheels of justice could very well turn very slowly. Remember this is a new law. I doubt the Probate courts are ready for the volume they will be seeing. 3. Factor in your age and life expectancy. If you are say 70 yr old , your spouse dies and your nominative shares rest in Probate waiting for the decision that they be issued to YOU ( as per the Will). Your desire as widow(er) then is to quickly liquidate and return to the USA and find yourself an independant living set up....you might die first before that can happen. I say that, IF Probate does in fact linger long. Bottom line is there's no guarantee on time in Probate. 4. Our personal attorney advised a Foundation. That would double our cost per year. If I live 20 years ( not probable) the cost in fees and tax would still be less than if at 90 I can not liquidate the house quickly. I'd most likely be dead here in Panama before I could walk away with the $$ for the sale of our home in my pocket. Factor in how long sale of a home could take even if you reduced the sale price to bargain basement level. These are all points we ponder. Our only living heir is our dog.

We were told in a recent talk that Wills still go through Probate and that the attorney assisting the survivors will get 10-15% of the value of the properties in that Probate. ( that's if I heard it right. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) That could be a nice sized bundle for an attorney! Probate can take several years ( 2-5). Foundations we are told will avoid the need for Probate. Many of us here bought homes that were in a Corporation which at the time, allowed anonymous Bearer Shares. That has changed with recent laws and now our anonymous Shares must bear the name of the owner. . Once that happens then Probate comes into the picture for the surviving spouse. . How to handle it is now the current discussion. Foundations seem to be the answer. Expensive however. Anyway I wanted to know what is the common practice here in this country and I appreciate your answer, as always. And...yes get that Will made up !

Yesterday my husband saw a car back out of a parking space and T-bone a passing vehicle in the vicinity of El Constructor. Today 3 times this nearly happened to him! He mentioned that had he not seen it happen the day before he might not have been as fast on the horn. Demolition derby out there !!!!!

Years ago I had an interesting conversation with an attorney from Cerro Punta I met at a wedding. We got on the topic of medical care in that he was a patient of the groom who was a chiropractor. Anyway the fellow was saying folks here have been scalped by the medical community for decades. He recounted rich farmers from Cerro Punta who had nothing but property and cattle assets ( cattle ranchers who started from nothing and now had amassed a fortune) going to the private hospital and having to sell off quantities of land a/o cattle to pay for the bill. The jist of it all was the hospital /doctors knew they had a gold mine and were willing to plunder their own. Humm OK. So what I came out with was ...this has been going on for a long long time here in Chiriqui. You come into the docs office clutching your chest you better have your other hand on your wallet !...his advice. Then he said...go to Panama City....

Roger..... What is the customary mode the Panamanian families use to preserve assets prior to the death of a spouse? Foundations? Wills? endure long Probate? Curious Alison

#21 And when you have guests visiting that want to hike up to Baru and ask you to come along you smile and say...."Have fun, be careful...here's some pepper spray a boat horn and some water...we'll pick you up when you're back....and charge your cell phone" Today we head to pick up our friends that left at midnight last night from the Boquete side and will hike all the way to Cerro Punta. (sigh).......ahhhhh to be young again. We won't be settled til we see them again.