Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, and Water Quality Issues

[Brundageba]

Parasite ( giardia) &  worms ( hook, pin etc)are  two different entities requiring very different treatments.  Giardia ( metronidazol or Flagyl)  worms like hook, pin, round ( albendazole)  Those are common drugs used to treat each entity.  If you are discussing giardia, then using the term "de-wormer" might not be 100 % accurate.   O& P studies often (more than not) miss the entity in the stool.  For this reason in the US the standard practice is three samples ( fresh)  on 3 consecutive days....if you want to know 100% after sample #1 comes back negative and you still feel shittty ( iterally).  

[BD]

On 12/22/2017 at 4:46 AM, Siempre Soluciones said:

we 

CLARIFICATION:

 

I just checked and much to my surprise this discussion's title had been changed.  When I created this discussion the title was:

 

"Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete"

 

The title apparently has been changed to:

 

"Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, and Water Quality Issues"

Which completely changed the scope of the discussion and makes it appear that I'm complaining about water quality.  For the record, I have not complained about the quality of water in Boquete.  I'm expressing my dissatisfaction with the lack of availability of water during a basic routine sewer/water project.

 

Moderators,

 

I  completely understand that this is your website and your rules apply, however, what prevents you from changing my original title to:

 

"Another Day Without Water in Bajo Boquete, Water Quality Issues, and Panamanians"

 

In the event I expressed my disappointment about a response from a Boquete government official on a particular subject?  Nothing.  A simple change can have far reaching implications.

 

Siempre, when I first read this reply, I jumped on board with you. And then I read:

 

On 12/22/2017 at 9:47 AM, Bonnie said:

I think your concerns may be unfounded, Siempre. Your initial post makes clear what your concern is, and everyone understands that discussions routinely move outside the bounds of the original post. The change in the title alerts readers to what is being discussed and makes the quality-of-water issue searchable.

 

which caused me to stop and reflect on your reply. (As an aside, I need to be careful here on this web site because I have been taken to task for being "caustic" was their word when I got a bit too aggressive in my words. They said I was attacking people, which is not permitted. I groused about that comeuppance for a while, including boycotting this web site. And then I went back and reread what I had written, and I ended up having to agree with them. What I was writing was how things are done on that cesspool of a web site called Ning.

Anyway, Bonnie's reply caused me to be more analytical. I concluded that she was correct. The topic that Siempre started had a title that he gave it. But then it was the members here who took the subject in a different but related direction. And so the owners updated the title to reflect what was contained in the topic. The owners responded to the members content, and were not the cause for it to go in a different but related direction. Does that not sound like good management to you?

But then you came back this morning, and this is what got my dander up.

 

2 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

 

Bonnie,

 

You wrote:

 

"I think your concerns may be unfounded, Siempre. Your initial post makes clear what your concern is, and everyone understands that discussions routinely move outside the bounds of the original post. The change in the title alerts readers to what is being discussed and makes the quality-of-water issue searchable."

 

However, if they don't read the discussion they won't discover that and just think I'm complaining.

 

That won't be a problem moving forward since I'll be very cautious as to what I post since god knows how it could be changed and hence make me look.

 

 

 

 

Siempre, you ARE COMPLAINING. Everyone on this web site sees that. Get over it. Slow down and take a deep breath. BTW, it is okay to complain.

Personalty speaking, I am finding this expanded subject matter to be very enlightening. I am learning a lot here. And isn't that what these kind of web sites is about?

For the web site owners, I hope you don't take my comments here as attacking a person. I am just trying to help him see the value of how this topic turned.

Edited December 23, 2017 by BD
spelling correction

[Bonnie]

3 hours ago, Brundageba said:

Parasite ( giardia) &  worms ( hook, pin etc)are  two different entities requiring very different treatments.  Giardia ( metronidazol or Flagyl)  worms like hook, pin, round ( albendazole)  Those are common drugs used to treat each entity.  If you are discussing giardia, then using the term "de-wormer" might not be 100 % accurate.   O& P studies often (more than not) miss the entity in the stool.  For this reason in the US the standard practice is three samples ( fresh)  on 3 consecutive days....if you want to know 100% after sample #1 comes back negative and you still feel shittty ( iterally).  

If we're getting picky, my dictionary defines "parasite" as "an animal or plant that lives in or on a host (another animal or plant); the parasite obtains nourishment from the host without benefiting or killing the host." So it seems to me that both giardia (protozoa) and worms would qualify as parasites. I feel sure that Jo, who worked in labs in a States for 35 years, including the management of a LabCorp in Houston (according to an earlier post), knows the difference between a protozoan and a worm and was using the word "de-wormer" in a general sense.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Bonnie

[Palo Alto Jo]

Correct Bonnie.  Protozoans , such as amoebas and Giardia, are treated similarly even though one is a large single-celled organisms, the other are various worms (tape, round, pinworms, etc).  Many amoebas are relatively harmless, but I didn't mean to describe them as beneficial or harmless.  I should have been more careful in the use of the word parasite.  I was using it to speak of organisms that we become inured to, that live off us for their nutrition without killing us.  The treatment for all is similar.

[Palo Alto Jo]

3 hours ago, Brundageba said:

Parasite ( giardia) &  worms ( hook, pin etc)are  two different entities requiring very different treatments.  Giardia ( metronidazol or Flagyl)  worms like hook, pin, round ( albendazole)  Those are common drugs used to treat each entity.  If you are discussing giardia, then using the term "de-wormer" might not be 100 % accurate.   O& P studies often (more than not) miss the entity in the stool.  For this reason in the US the standard practice is three samples ( fresh)  on 3 consecutive days....if you want to know 100% after sample #1 comes back negative and you still feel shittty ( iterally).  

A small correction.  The reason standard protocol is 3 consecutive days of specimens, is not because labs "miss" Giardia.  It's because their life cycle has cycles we call shedding.  One day there is less shedding and the number will be lower.  Guardia is by far the most common "parasite" in the United States. Only it's eggs are ovas, so when I speak of an adult Guardia I did call it a parasite, as I thought that would be easier and still accurate.  Labs look at stool specimens in 3 different preparations, some directly from specimen some concentrations, so as not to "miss" anything.  It's an all day process, and not enjoyable!

[Brundageba]

Yes... I get it.  Call it false negative.  Know that if your stool spec comes back negative and you still feel shitty with abdominal pain and diarrhea you may still have Giardia.  It is not easy to find Giardia in stool ( I believe it's more difficult than worms)  . Hey I'm not a parasitologist but a nurse of 50 yrs experience who has worked treating Ngobe with intestinal disorders here for about 5 yr with a doctor in a clinic. 

This topic was about water and intermittent supply of it.  I know the worm discussion diverts a bit...BUT open pipes and untreated water  does flow with the parasites and worms.....All of us here get the creeps when it comes to bad water and possible illnesses from it.  This is a very good discussion methinks. Maybe it will make us all a bit more patient regarding the pitfalls of putting in our new water purification system in town.  ( ha ha ...THEN we'll gripe about the Chlorine !)

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Brundageba

[Marcelyn]

18 minutes ago, Brundageba said:

Yes... I get it.  Call it false negative.  Know that if your stool spec comes back negative and you still feel shitty with abdominal pain and diarrhea you may still have Giardia.  It is not easy to find Giardia in stool ( I believe it's more difficult than worms)  . Hey I'm not a parasitologist but a nurse of 50 yrs experience who has worked treating Ngobe with intestinal disorders here for about 5 yr with a doctor in a clinic. 

This topic was about water and intermittent supply of it.  I know the worm discussion diverts a bit...BUT open pipes and untreated water  does flow with the parasites and worms.....All of us here get the creeps when it comes to bad water and possible illnesses from it.  This is a very good discussion methinks. Maybe it will make us all a bit more patient regarding the pitfalls of putting in our new water purification system in town.  ( ha ha ...THEN we'll gripe about the Chlorine !)

 

Yes, I agree this is a very good discussion. (May have veered from the first posting on water situation, but CL members expressed and exchanged a lot of helpful health information closely related to the water supply in our area.) You and Palo Alto Jo deserve everyones’ thanks for your medical experience and data posted here.

[Palo Alto Jo]

3 hours ago, Brundageba said:

Yes... I get it.  Call it false negative.  Know that if your stool spec comes back negative and you still feel shitty with abdominal pain and diarrhea you may still have Giardia.  It is not easy to find Giardia in stool ( I believe it's more difficult than worms)  . Hey I'm not a parasitologist but a nurse of 50 yrs experience who has worked treating Ngobe with intestinal disorders here for about 5 yr with a doctor in a clinic. 

This topic was about water and intermittent supply of it.  I know the worm discussion diverts a bit...BUT open pipes and untreated water  does flow with the parasites and worms.....All of us here get the creeps when it comes to bad water and possible illnesses from it.  This is a very good discussion methinks. Maybe it will make us all a bit more patient regarding the pitfalls of putting in our new water purification system in town.  ( ha ha ...THEN we'll gripe about the Chlorine !)

 

I can feel the pain of trying to analyze a stool specimen in the jungles of Panama.  I had every piece of modern equipment, centrifuges, specific dyes that only attached to ameobas, etc.  And glowed under a florescent microscope.  Kudos for doing it the hard, old-fashioned way! I'd love to be involved in a future project, or have a microscope and check everyone's water for Giardia. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Palo Alto Jo
Additional info

[Brundageba]

Palo Alto Jo.     I have a microscope.  Maybe you could put it to good use.  Wow a resident CL parasitologist .  You can give us the news on the gut bug in the news of late.  You are welcome to put it to use if you so desire.  That might be fun for you.  .  (I have some dyes as well and slides I do believe.) Let me know.  Private message me.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Brundageba

[Siempre Soluciones]

 

BD,

 

It's not complaining when simple solutions are available.  My point is that a private corporation is allowed to negatively impact a communities' quality of life.

 

Having lived in a Panamanian neighborhood for two years now I now socialize more with Panamanians than gringos.  Many are college educated, speak English, and have lived abroad.  I've learned a lot, as my neighbors point out, it's only a problem to gringos if it affects them.  I could go on but it's beyond the scope of this discussion and gringos won't want to hear it. 

 

And these discussions on "stupid people" really is out of line.  I'm beginning to understand the Panamanian "anti-gringo" sentiment more clearly.

 

 

[Keith Woolford]

10 minutes ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

My point is that a private corporation is allowed to negatively impact a communities' quality of life.

The interruptions to service which you were complaining about last week were caused by ruptures in the existing aqueduct, not by the contractor.

Communicating with people in your immediate community is nothing new and it doesn't matter what nationality your neighbours are.

[Keith Woolford]

Quote

it's only a problem to gringos if it affects them.  I could go on but it's beyond the scope of this discussion and gringos won't want to hear it. 

Certainly glad you made that judgment.

[Palo Alto Jo]

On 12/23/2017 at 6:36 PM, Brundageba said:

Palo Alto Jo.     I have a microscope.  Maybe you could put it to good use.  Wow a resident CL parasitologist .  You can give us the news on the gut bug in the news of late.  You are welcome to put it to use if you so desire.  That might be fun for you.  .  (I have some dyes as well and slides I do believe.) Let me know.  Private message me.

I'll private message you.  I think it would be fun to  give a day to accept river water samples around the area and just see what we could find.  We might not see all organisms without centrifuges and specialty dyes, but it would be interesting just to see what we could discover, if anything.  It would certainly be fun for me to just look through a microscope again.  

[Brundageba]

You are welcome to put it to good use.

[BD]

On 12/28/2017 at 7:57 AM, Siempre Soluciones said:

It's not complaining when simple solutions are available.

According to the dictionaries that I use, that is not a correct statement.

“...expressing dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; finding fault...” or “...expressing pain, dissatisfaction, or resentment...”, etc., etc.

You were complaining.

 

On 12/28/2017 at 7:57 AM, Siempre Soluciones said:

I could go on but it's beyond the scope of this discussion and gringos won't want to hear it. 

 

The first half of that sentence was correct IMO, but there is nothing that I’ve seen that says you can’t start another topic.

On the second part of that sentence, I am disappointed to read that you think so little of my interest or capacity to engage conversationally in certain subjects. Maybe I should go back into my cave so as to spare the community of my shortcomings. Thank you for your decision.

Sorry. Nope. That ain’t gonna happen. 

 

P.S., sorry about the delay in seeing your reply. The last several days have been busy for me.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by BD
typo

[Siempre Soluciones]

 

 

 

 

 

[BD]

Sielmpre,  I do not know what you are saying. Too obtuse for my brain. Leaving substantive replies to others more capable than me.

The main reason for replying is that I do not see anyone attacking you. It appears that you interpret disagreement or alternative views as an attack. My opinion is that doing so benefits no one.

I am very curious as to why you posted your latest in the manner that you did. It appears to be a scanned printout from a word processor rather than just typing your words directly into this forum. Am I missing something here?

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

[Siempre Soluciones]

.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Siempre Soluciones
type

[Moderator_02]

On 12/28/2017 at 1:46 PM, Palo Alto Jo said:

I'll private message you.  I think it would be fun to  give a day to accept river water samples around the area and just see what we could find.  We might not see all organisms without centrifuges and specialty dyes, but it would be interesting just to see what we could discover, if anything.  It would certainly be fun for me to just look through a microscope again.  

If either of you learn something of general interest about water supplies in this area based on your microscopic laboratory work, would you post here for the benefit of all?

[Palo Alto Jo]

1 hour ago, Moderator_02 said:

If either of you learn something of general interest about water supplies in this area based on your microscopic laboratory work, would you post here for the benefit of all?

 

Sure!  I think we're  just waiting to see if there is enough interest.  I am available to look at samples,  assuming microscope is functioning, anytime after Jan. 7.

[Brundageba]

For sure.....but don't hold your breath we are not a full service lab...but we ARE enthusiastic !

[Keith Woolford]

13 minutes ago, Brundageba said:

 we are not a full service lab...but we ARE enthusiastic !

full service Lab

 

      

 

[Dottie Atwater]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:27 PM, Brundageba said:

Dixon lab is probably the best one for water. You will need a sterile plastic container and clean the faucet well, then get the sample mid stream ( let the water run awhile)  

 

Dixon Lab will give you the sterile container and written instructions about how to obtain the water sample. It must be done correctly for a correct result.