Rife Treatments, Cancer Cures, Holistic Therapies, Pharmaceutical Research

[Brundageba]

Bonnie said: This comparison is valid only if money for both treatment and research come from the same source

The statin studies are a good example of the drug companies padding results to promote sales.  It's sort of like the fox working as an interior decorator for chickens in the chicken coop .  One might conclude that all cholesterol is bad and that all statins are good for everybody with marginal elevations of cholesterol if you were to swallow all the research studies put out by the statin producers in early years. . Well decades later it was proven that statins can do some harm and cholesterol elevations may not necessarily be all that bad.  That information is readily available on-line now in research literature.   Today we don't have to swallow everything pushed in front of our noses.  Read .  The information is out there.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Brundageba

[Bonnie]

19 minutes ago, Brundageba said:

The statin studies are a good example of the drug companies padding results to promote sales.  It's sort of like the fox working as an interior decorator for chickens in the chicken coop .  One might conclude that all cholesterol is bad and that all statins are good for everybody with marginal elevations of cholesterol if you were to swallow all the research studies put out by the statin producers in early years. . Well decades later it was proven that statins can do some harm and cholesterol elevations may not necessarily be all that bad.  That information is readily available on-line now in research literature.   Today we don't have to swallow everything pushed in front of our noses.  Read .  The information is out there.

I'm not sure who are the foxes and who are the chickens here, but please understand that I am not defending the practices of the pharmaceutical industry; there's lots to criticize there. Nor am I denying that there are effective medical treatments other than drugs. The kickoff for this discussion was about alternative therapies that claim to be cures for cancer and the underlying claim that their work has been suppressed by an unholy collusion of doctors and drug companies for financial profit. Any alternative practitioner with the hubris to claim he can cure cancer has forgotten the example of Steve Jobs, who had the wherewithal to try all the alternative therapies but didn't live to tell about it. And the broad charge of collusion is disrespectful to the many scientists who labor tirelessly in search of cures.

One other thing. All these conspiracy theories--whether they be government cover ups of UFOs or of U.S. involvement in the events of 9/11 or in President Kennedy's assassination or doctors and drug companies covering up promising research for profit--demand that an awful lot of folks keep an awful lot of secrets. Very few people are capable of keeping a secret for any length of time. It's unreasonable to believe that hundreds, or even thousands, could do so about issues of this magnitude.

[Uncle Doug]

3 hours ago, Bonnie said:

One other thing. All these conspiracy theories--whether they be government cover ups of UFOs or of U.S. involvement in the events of 9/11 or in President Kennedy's assassination or doctors and drug companies covering up promising research for profit--demand that an awful lot of folks keep an awful lot of secrets. Very few people are capable of keeping a secret for any length of time. It's unreasonable to believe that hundreds, or even thousands, could do so about issues of this magnitude.

Don't forget about the moon landings in the late 60's and 70's that millions still think were fake.  

There is something weird about the need of many to suspect conspiracy.  Years ago, I used to tell people that I saw the 100 mile per gallon carburetor in a display case in the Exxon lobby in Houston. (the rumor was that they had bought the patent in order to keep this gas-saving device off the market).  At least 90% of the time, I was believed. 

[Brundageba]

I agree Bonnie.  I just read research papers and try to stay current reading what respected doctors have to say who are expert in the field of preventative medicine.

I hope Bonnie that you did not take what I said as a personal criticism.  It was not meant to be that.  My desire is that every patient understand fully what they are being treated for and with what modality understanding benefits as well as  risks. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Brundageba

[Bonnie]

1 hour ago, Brundageba said:

I agree Bonnie.  I just read research papers and try to stay current reading what respected doctors have to say who are expert in the field of preventative medicine.

I hope Bonnie that you did not take what I said as a personal criticism.  It was not meant to be that.  My desire is that every patient understand fully what they are being treated for and with what modality understanding benefits as well as  risks. 

I understand completely, and it was not taken as personal criticism. My own post was motivated by the fact that that your earlier post about the foxes and the chickens lent itself to being read as a doctors/pharmaceuticals conspiracy. Instead, it diverged from topic a little bit to address the shortcomings of the drug industry and the necessity for patients to be informed as completely as possible about medications. I wholly agree with you about that.

 

[Palo Alto Jo]

8 hours ago, Bonnie said:

I'm not sure who are the foxes and who are the chickens here, but please understand that I am not defending the practices of the pharmaceutical industry; there's lots to criticize there. Nor am I denying that there are effective medical treatments other than drugs. The kickoff for this discussion was about alternative therapies that claim to be cures for cancer and the underlying claim that their work has been suppressed by an unholy collusion of doctors and drug companies for financial profit. Any alternative practitioner with the hubris to claim he can cure cancer has forgotten the example of Steve Jobs, who had the wherewithal to try all the alternative therapies but didn't live to tell about it. And the broad charge of collusion is disrespectful to the many scientists who labor tirelessly in search of cures.

One other thing. All these conspiracy theories--whether they be government cover ups of UFOs or of U.S. involvement in the events of 9/11 or in President Kennedy's assassination or doctors and drug companies covering up promising research for profit--demand that an awful lot of folks keep an awful lot of secrets. Very few people are capable of keeping a secret for any length of time. It's unreasonable to believe that hundreds, or even thousands, could do so about issues of this magnitude.

What good arguments there Bonnie!!  Yes, there is no way "governments" can keep secrets, nor pharmaceuticals.  Way too many people "know", there is always a leaker.  And Steve Jobs is a perfect example of how far off away we still are from a  "cure".  I'm sure he tried everything, with his resources and his desperate situation.  There is money to be made in cures!!   

Doug, I too used to argue with a guy who "knew" all about the conspiracy to keep the 100 mpg carburetor off the market.  Maybe Keith knows this, but haven't cars been "carburetor-less" for 25 years now?

[Uncle Doug]

I think you can still buy a weed whacker with a carburetor, so Big Oil's conspiracy didn't work.

You can still get over a thousand weeds per hour.

Just sayin'.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Uncle Doug
Typo

[Penny]

I'm always reminded of Steve Jobs who, just before he died, said he wished he hadn't wasted a year on alternative treatments. My humble opinion is that one can pursue both alternative and traditional medical treatments at the same time. What's wrong with covering all the bases?

[Palo Alto Jo]

On 12/30/2017 at 4:10 PM, Keith Woolford said:

My point was probably inspired by stats from a few years ago that showed about $100 billion being spent annually on cancer treatment in the U.S. as opposed to only about $5 billion on research.

Keith, the sheer number of people getting treated for cancer, by the huge number of professionals, and expensive diagnostic equipment VS. even the most gung-ho, no holes barred, spending spree research would easily explain those numbers.  There aren't that many smart scientists working on this, but still that's a lot of money on research.    There are so many more diseases than cancer, like Alzheimer's and Aids, that even the few researchers that are working on cures are getting a lot of grant money, compared to the huge number of sick people.   Again, these scientists are not getting the big bucks to research, they aren't in it to be rewarded financially, although I'm sure they still make a very good living, and they should based on their knowledge and education.  A ratio of 1 dollar in research for every 20 dollars in treatments (that came from research) seems like a lot of research money on one class of disease.  It also shows how complicated it is, and that there is not going to be "one cure" but hopefully each variety of cancer can be "cured" over time.  

[Palo Alto Jo]

2 hours ago, Penny said:

I'm always reminded of Steve Jobs who, just before he died, said he wished he hadn't wasted a year on alternative treatments. My humble opinion is that one can pursue both alternative and traditional medical treatments at the same time. What's wrong with covering all the bases?

I think that is a good idea.  I only fear those who turn their nose up at the treatments with proven statistics and ONLY take the "holistic" or alternative approach.  Laetril was basically ground apricot pits, and yet people poured into Mexico to get it, versus surgery/chemo/radiation/pharmaceuticals.  I'm sure the apricot pits didn't hurt anyone, but ignoring cancer specialists probably did. I do wish the FDA would start testing some of these "cures" and make these people adhere to real peer review before they can claim any successes.  But, as they are "natural treatments", I can see the FDA refusing to get involved with judging the benefits of "eating dehydrated grapefruit" or some such.  They already know grapefruit to be safe.   Funny thing is, most people don't realize that often big pharmaceuticals get the basic chemical structure of some medicine from plants and are always looking at rare plants for possible treatments of ailments, much as the old medicine men have for thousands of years.  They should do a better job of getting that message out.  People love to hear a product came from "natural sources" for some reason.

[Brundageba]

I agree 100% .  Important to learn first.  With this computer age the patient no longer has to remain ignorant. You can learn what the malady is that you suffer from as well accepted treatments.  Add to that some common sense.  If you need brain surgery don't just accept the doc who does one a year as mandated by your insurance company.  That puts you at risk.  That happened to me.  I had a brain tumor that took real skill to operate and BC/BS wanted me to go to a Kaiser surgeon where I lived in Hawaii who did one a year!.  The risk?..Death on the table, hemi facial paralysis , deafness on one side.  I fought.  In 2 weeks i was in California having surgery done at the foremost Ear Hospital in the world being operated on by the surgeon who wrote the textbooks on it...acoustic neuroma.  God help me if I had not done my homework !  At the time I had no computer, but I did have the medical library connected to the Medical School at the U of Hawaii.  THE ONLY books written on acoustic neuroma in that library were written by the surgeons that operated me.   Soo do your homework.  Don't swallow anybody's line.  You can learn and can move forward in so doing.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Brundageba

[Brundageba]

Proceed to the next  thread.  I said something here I deleted....sorry. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Brundageba
delete

[Penny]

Palo Alto Jo talks about the FDA but remember, we're in Panama and the FDA has no power here.

[Brundageba]

So does that mean docs here could be prescribing non-FDA approved drugs?  .....nah I doubt it.

[Bonnie]

3 hours ago, Penny said:

Palo Alto Jo talks about the FDA but remember, we're in Panama and the FDA has no power here.

I regularly look up a drug online to find out whether or not it has been approved by the FDA. Many drugs prescribed and sold here in Panama are not. That doesn't mean they're necessarily bad, but it does call for further investigation about why it has not been approved by the FDA.

Interesting story. This past fall, on a trip to Spain, I suffered a fall that put me in the emergency room. Upon leaving, I was handed two types of painkillers. On a cruise home to Panama, a British woman who shared our table asked what I had been given. She advised me that one was potentially dangerous for persons of northern European descent and that I should look it up before continuing to take it. I went to the computer and googled Nolotil, the name of the drug. What I found was startling. One news article related the story of an Irishman vacationing in Spain who had been prescribed the drug and died of septic shock. The article related, " While the drug is available and dispensed in countries like Spain, it’s banned in Ireland, the UK, the US, Australia and several other EU countries." Moreover, the man's son reported, “This is a known side-effect of the drug which the hospital doctors said is particularly a problem for people of British and Irish decent." And, “The second GP who sent him to hospital afterwards also stated it was ‘common knowledge’ not to prescribe English or Irish people this drug.” I quit taking it.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Bonnie

[Keith Woolford]

2 hours ago, Palo Alto Jo said:

I only fear those who turn their nose up at the treatments with proven statistics and ONLY take the "holistic" or alternative approach. 

Don't get me started. I lost a good friend here several years ago who was convinced by others to take this route and he died instead of being successfully treated at Punta Pacifica.

[Palo Alto Jo]

13 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

Don't get me started. I lost a good friend here several years ago who was convinced by others to take this route and he died instead of being successfully treated at Punta Pacifica.

That is so sad Keith, and  when one sees it you feel helpless!!   It's worse than watching someone feed their cat a vegetarian diet and watching their cat starve to death.  Very painful!   I'm so sorry.

[Palo Alto Jo]

1 hour ago, Penny said:

Palo Alto Jo talks about the FDA but remember, we're in Panama and the FDA has no power here.

The FDA approves drugs that eventually make it onto the world market.  They can also keep promising drugs out of the market, if the producer is an American producer.  The FDAs decisions often have world-wide consequences.  

[Palo Alto Jo]

36 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

I regularly look up a drug online to find out whether or not it has been approved by the FDA. Many drugs prescribed and sold here in Panama are not. That doesn't mean they're necessarily bad, but it does call for further investigation about why it has not been approved by the FDA.

Interesting story. This past fall, on a trip to Spain, I suffered a fall that put me in the emergency room. Upon leaving, I was handed two types of painkillers. On a cruise home to Panama, a British woman who shared out table asked what I had been given. She advised me that one was potentially dangerous for persons of northern European descent and that I should look it up before continuing to take it. I went to the computer and googled Nolotil, the name of the drug. What I found was startling. One news article related the story of an Irishman vacationing in Spain who had been prescribed the drug and died of septic shock. The article related, " While the drug is available and dispensed in countries like Spain, it’s banned in Ireland, the UK, the US, Australia and several other EU countries." Moreover, the man's son reported, “This is a known side-effect of the drug which the hospital doctors said is particularly a problem for people of British and Irish decent." And, “The second GP who sent him to hospital afterwards also stated it was ‘common knowledge’ not to prescribe English or Irish people this drug.” I quit taking it.

Wow, Bonnie that is amazing.  If the drug were available here, I wonder how many of us European descent types would take it without a thought.  Thanks, for the info, I'm going to be checking better if I get prescribed anything new down here.  We do need to be responsible for ourselves.  Lesson learned!

[Uncle Doug]

Fortunately, I  am a hillbilly from the eastern slopes of the Himalayan mountains, so all drugs work great on me.

[Brundageba]

Excellent information here start to finish.  All this should be an eye opener for each one of us here.  Bonnie.....glad you survived !

[Pantah]

On 12/31/2017 at 12:34 PM, Uncle Doug said:

Don't forget about the moon landings in the late 60's and 70's that millions still think were fake.  

There is something weird about the need of many to suspect conspiracy.  Years ago, I used to tell people that I saw the 100 mile per gallon carburetor in a display case in the Exxon lobby in Houston. (the rumor was that they had bought the patent in order to keep this gas-saving device off the market).  At least 90% of the time, I was believed. 

This explains some stuff: Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time, by Michael Shermer, available on amazon.

[Jim and Judi]

17 hours ago, Palo Alto Jo said:

The FDA approves drugs that eventually make it onto the world market.  They can also keep promising drugs out of the market, if the producer is an American producer.  The FDAs decisions often have world-wide consequences.  

The FDA doesn't have control over what hits the world market. FDA approval does not mean approval worldwide at all. Quite the opposite, companies apply to individual countries for approval of their product.

[Palo Alto Jo]

Just now, Jim and Judi said:

The FDA doesn't have control over what hits the world market. FDA approval does not mean approval worldwide at all. Quite the opposite, companies apply to individual countries for approval of their product.

You're probably right.  I need to correct my American-centric mind. I continue to think that most research and development goes on in the U.S., but other countries are doing it too, and often with better trial regulations, quicker to market, and making lots of progress.  Thanks for reminding me, I need to shake that impression for good!  Sometimes I think the FDA is more a hindrance than a help.  They will approve something and then be the first to yell later that it is dangerous and needs to be taken off the market.  I used to wonder if they took bribes from drug companies AND personal injury lawyers.  NO, JUST KIDDING!!

 

 

[Palo Alto Jo]

13 hours ago, Pantah said:

This explains some stuff: Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time, by Michael Shermer, available on amazon.

That book looks interesting.  I'm going to get it.  Just today I had a friend in California text me that we can't get any shots because she is reading so many "articles" on the Internet about a government conspiracy to get rid of "undesirables" by getting them to take (or "forced to take" as she said)  flu shots and vaccines.  I cannot for the life of me figure out how people can get these goofy ideas.  She wrote this from her sick bed where she has the flu....     Perhaps the book will help me see where this is coming from.  I hate to blame the "Internet" when it seems like it's people who are not willing to put in the time to learn about the science, and find it easier to believe superstitions and pseudoscience.  Thanks for the suggested reading!