Keith Woolford Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Executive Decree 590 was issued on December 28th. Here's Roger's interpretation: Quote Decreto Ejecutivo 590. Del 28 de Diciembre de 2016 This presidential decree supersedes the Presidential decree 536 of 28/May/2016. The immigration law always granted 90 days for a tourist to stay in the country without any problem. President Martinelli did a Presidential decree 536 in May 2016 raising the stay period from 90 days to 180 days. The law wasn't changed. Only a decree was used to grant some tourists to stay double time in Panama. What this new decree by president Varela does is to supersede the Martinelli's Decreto Ejecutivo and return back to 90 days, the original time stated by the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 3/11/2017 at 10:34 AM, Penny said: In addition to incompetent and dishonest lawyers, there is also the problem that many older people no longer have fingerprints that can be taken with the old ink roller method. I even know some folks who have made multiple attempts at digital fingerprints only to have that method also not work. I know two of the attorneys that Twin Wolf entrusted to get him resident status and I can certify that they were both incompetent. It is true that this change seemed to be abrupt to many. However, those who follow the local news, the forums, and the yahoo groups have known for quite a while that Panama was about to tighten up the border hopping loophole. That is correct. In my several post at the old BN and others I have expressed my "special love" to lawyers here. I havent used them in a long time and when I did, I just only used them for small things that I am closely supervising. Lawyers knows how to twist the law in their favor. For me they are in the second position to politicians as the most criticized people in a society. Panama is a difficult place to live and it is not made for everyone. Some of us have learned to live here and defend ourselves the best ways and be happy. Other people dont have the patience, willingness, time, etc. So, this new measure will bring some consecuences but as usual it will pass over time and the water will level itself and everything will return to normal. It is not the first time bad things happened in the country and people survived. Sometimes the best way to learn something is the hard way. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieElaine Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I too have a friend whose finger prints no longer exist. She has "finger wrinkles" but no swirls. The lawyer she consulted told her she should not have chosen to come to Panama if she has no prints and there is nothing he can do for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, MarieElaine said: I too have a friend whose finger prints no longer exist. She has "finger wrinkles" but no swirls. The lawyer she consulted told her she should not have chosen to come to Panama if she has no prints and there is nothing he can do for her. I would think that if that is the case of that person she should explain that to the authorities and something they should do regarding that. Or take the fingerprints as they are now and show it. It is what they want...it is what they will get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSailors Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Hopefully a lot of questions will be answered by the US Ambassador on Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayRiver Farms Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Why can there not be privileges for some over others? If there are no persons with special skills which are needed, then those persons with such skills would be preferred immigrants. If the country of Panamà does not want to accept Venezuelans on a humanitarian basis, then that is their political decision. Perhaps they think that a retiree who border hops does so because they lack funds to get a jubilado or E-Cedula. There have been several Americans who have come with minimal income ( in the past $500 per month was the minimum.) Then they get sick and depend on the government to absorb their medical bills. I am not sure what the minimum is now, but people with small pensions cannot spend too much and thus may not be considered an economic plus. One would think that a retiree who employs native workers would be desirable. If one cannot stay in the country and owns property, then at some point, the government might get the property. Money always talks, but in what language? Perhaps the politicos just woke up angry one day. Or perhaps the CIA is being intrusive and the problem is displaced anger. I do regret that some people get caught in the cracks. Perhaps things will relax again soon. Governments can be arbitrary and illogical! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, TwoSailors said: Hopefully a lot of questions will be answered by the US Ambassador on Tuesday. This is an issue of Panamanian law, not U.S. law. There is little to nothing that the Embassy can do. Don't expect any answers on Tuesday morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hil Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 3 hours ago, TwoSailors said: Hopefully a lot of questions will be answered by the US Ambassador on Tuesday. Two sailors, I have dealt with the ambassador personally. He and his staff will answer any and all questions with the information they have at the time. They are talking to the Panamanian Government---they already sent out a letter. Things might changes since the letter. Go to the meeting and ask questions. The ambassador helped me with a VA problem and answered my emails personally and he got the VA to straighten out a problem for me. His stafff does screen emails and I addressed my email to him. So it's worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Doug Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I believe it was well known to Panamanian authorities that the tourist loophole was being used. Suddenly eliminating it has caught some people unaware, and for the Walkers it is catastrophic. Yes, yes, coulda woulda shoulda, but with some advance they wouldn't have been stranded with no way to get back to their property and the monkeys under their care. I feel so badly for them. I'm on a trip to the US at present, so I didn't find out about this until last night. Panama has every right to enforce its immigration laws, but the sudden new enforcement rules (which are still unclear) have put some very good people in one hell of a bind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I don't believe the law has changed. Panama has a right to decide who can live here and only want people who have sufficient funds and can pass a criminal background check. Border hoppers have just been using a "hole" in the Panamanian law and trying to be a permanent tourist. As Roger stated, this change was not abrupt. "Those who follow the local news, forums, etc. have known for quite a while that Panama was about to tighten up the border hopping loophole". Why should the rules relax? Customs not checking status at airports? Maybe not today, but how about tomorrow or next week. Just follow the Panamanian law. Perhaps the real problem is (1) incompetent and dishonest lawyers and (2) time involved for resident status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSailors Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bonnie said: This is an issue of Panamanian law, not U.S. law. There is little to nothing that the Embassy can do. Don't expect any answers on Tuesday morning. Bonnie, Somewhat agree, but is it not the role/responsibility for the Ambassador/US Embassy to assist US citizens as needed? I don't buy into that" there is little or nothing the Embassy can do". Obviously the issue here with border hopping has taken a lot of people by surprise. I think the main point of this is to have the Ambassador get precise clarification as to exactly where folks stand and at the very least allow a grace period. What good does it do to strand people? Just imagine the chaos that will create for the Embassy. Totally understand Panama cracking down on folks that are taking advantage, but there are a lot of folks that are on the two year time clock, folks with different circumstances, and or waiting on Social Security to get the Visa process going. Should they be penalized because of that? Edited March 11, 2017 by TwoSailors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, TwoSailors said: Bonnie, Somewhat agree, but is it not the role/responsibility for the Ambassador/US Embassy to assist US citizens as needed? I don't buy into that" there is nothing the Embassy can do". Obviously the issue here with border hopping has taken a lot of people by surprise. I think the main point of this is to have the Ambassador get precise clarification as to exactly where folks stand and at the very least allow a grace period. What good does it do to strand people? Just imagine the chaos that will create for the Embassy. Totally understand Panama cracking down on folks that are taking advantage, but there are a lot of folks that are on the two year time clock, folks with different circumstances, and or waiting on Social Security to get the Visa process going. Should they be penalized because of that? It's my understanding that such a letter has been written. In the event that there is a response prior to Tuesday, the Ambassador will indeed have some noteworthy things to say. I was told by Citizen Services that the Embassy stands ready to do whatever it can to help individual Americans in need but that they cannot be perceived as trying to influence lawmaking. You also will not hear criticism of the Panamanian government by Embassy personnel. This is the nature of diplomacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 On December 28th. 2016 the government cut the length of a tourist stay from 180 to 90 days. I believe this situation to be related to that Decree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSailors Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) From Facebook: Quote POSTED BY LOGAN NEET TO BOQUETE COMMUNITY GROUP ON FACEBOOK: I thought I'd post an update on the tourist visa for those that need to know. I don't want to start bickering, I'm simply sharing information for those who really need it. We drove to the Rio Sereno border yesterday and talked to the border official who knows us from our runs. My wife is fluent in Spanish, he told her that this was a presidential decree and they will not discriminate. If it appears you are living in Panama on a tourist visa, you will be denied entry. He said do not attempt to do border runs any more as we were doing. He told us to fly home when our 180 days is up and stay in the states for 30 days, then we can return. You will not be able to do the 90 day drivers license cycle anymore. He was very sure of what he said, he left no doubt. And that's directly from the horses mouth. The only other way to stay in the country is if you start the paperwork for residency. Our friends were detained a couple days ago and the only way they got back in was to provide a letter from their lawyer stating they had started the process. I hope this helps those in our situation. Many think this will blow over but from what he said, it looks like it will stick. Edited March 15, 2017 by Moderator_02 inserted quoted text formatting 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooikop Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 3/11/2017 at 8:49 AM, Bonnie said: The loss of both Dan and the Walkers would be a substantial loss to the community. I'm holding out hope that Panama will rectify this situation asap. Surely by now the powers that be have recognized how short-sighted and peremptory the issuance of this decree was. I don't think anybody cares Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooikop Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Hey Bonnie .we have no idea how and when we can get back in .and I am tired of all the selfrightrous ones telling me what I should have done.I just tried to warn people .should have kept quite. I could have put it more eloquently but than I would be banned here as well.hope to be back soon and I hope you feel better soon.I have had no real advice or information on what to do I might have to fly from Managua to london. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooikop Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 09/03/2017 at 7:58 PM, Bonnie said: Just to be clear, Steve, Michelle, the daughter, and the daughter's friend all were on the trip and all were refused reentry. Bonnie how do I contact the UK. Warden in Boquete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Steven, Tricia Daugherty is the local U.K. Consular Representative. Sorry I do not have contact info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooikop Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Keith Woolford said: Steven, Tricia Daugherty is the local U.K. Consular Representative. Sorry I do not have contact info. thanks keith.maybe someone knows her email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooikop Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 14 hours ago, Rooikop said: Wise move. The immigration officer asked if Michelle was my wife took her passport and told her she had to leave.Did not look at it .did not open and see she has been here only 5 months and has her return ticket to london next week.and was entitled to be in Panama. she hasn't been in Panama for 5 years so there was no border hopping ,this is what we faced, He would not talk to us just a complete denial and get out.so no chance to say goodbye to our daughter and end her holiday on a happy note. London calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rooikop said: Bonnie how do I contact the UK. Warden in Boquete? Steven Many people care about your situation. Trish Daugherty is the UK Warden and her email is triciajdaugherty@hotmail.com. However, like Bonnie said about the U.S. embassy, there is very little they can do about Panamanian law. Good luck with this. If you decide to just walk back across the border, I will come and pick you up. Email me at pjbarrett@aol.com A little additional information -- apparently some border immigration people are telling folks they have to stay out of Panama for 30 days before being allowed to return. Edited March 12, 2017 by Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hil Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Penny said: Steven Many people care about your situation. Trish Daugherty is the UK Warden and her email is triciajdaugherty@hotmail.com. However, like Bonnie said about the U.S. embassy, there is very little they can do about Panamanian law. Good luck with this. If you decide to just walk back across the border, I will come and pick you up. Email me at pjbarrett@aol.com A little additional information -- apparently some border immigration people are telling folks they have to stay out of Panama for 30 days before being allowed to return. Good idea Penny--yes he can walk across. Then "maybe" he can make his flight out of Tocumen. I don't think they will look at his passport too close when leaving Tocumen. They don't look too close at the exit stamp out of costa rica when leaving from Tocumen. If they say something at Tocumen he can tell them deport me on "My Flight I have booked." Anyway you slice it if he walks across and makes it to Tocumen in May they can let him pass or deport him on his "own" scheduled plane ticket. It's worth the gamble to get his property on the market. Edited March 12, 2017 by Hil more ino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Rooikop said: The immigration officer asked if Michelle was my wife took her passport and told her she had to leave.Did not look at it .did not open and see she has been here only 5 months and has her return ticket to london next week.and was entitled to be in Panama. she hasn't been in Panama for 5 years so there was no border hopping ,this is what we faced, He would not talk to us just a complete denial and get out.so no chance to say goodbye to our daughter and end her holiday on a happy note. London calls. They let Michelle back into Panama but did not let you in? I'm confused. To those advocating a walk back into Panama, one complication is that Steve has a truck less than a year old worth thousands of dollars. I'm sure he's reluctant to abandon it in Costa Rica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Penny said: Steven Many people care about your situation. Trish Daugherty is the UK Warden and her email is triciajdaugherty@hotmail.com. However, like Bonnie said about the U.S. embassy, there is very little they can do about Panamanian law. Good luck with this. If you decide to just walk back across the border, I will come and pick you up. Email me at pjbarrett@aol.com A little additional information -- apparently some border immigration people are telling folks they have to stay out of Panama for 30 days before being allowed to return. I alerted Trish to this as soon as Gareth called me. She had a lengthy discussion with the British Embassy about Steve's situation. I have forwarded those e-mails to Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siempre Soluciones Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Bonnie said: They let Michelle back into Panama but did not let you in? I'm confused. To those advocating a walk back into Panama, one complication is that Steve has a truck less than a year old worth thousands of dollars. I'm sure he's reluctant to abandon it in Costa Rica. Bonnie, People in Panama on tourist visas are not allowed to drive vehicles owned and registered to them outside of the country. How did he do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.