Bonnie

I am not aware, of course, of all the ins and outs of the treaty and its enforcement, but Keith's example of what Canada does is instructive. Canadian law provides for the "exceptional cases" the treaty demands in order to treat juveniles as adults and provides for juvenile offenders to be held in juvenile facilities rather than adult prisons. In all fairness, Minister Aguilera is aware of this possibility because he mentioned in his talk that more developed countries have the social networks in place (including juvenile jails) to handle underage offenders whereas Panama does not, suggesting, I suppose, that such a network is beyond the country's financial means. I want to make clear that I am not in favor of capital punishment for juveniles, for incarceration of juveniles without the possibility of parole, or for the incarceration of juveniles in adult jails. I believe the treaty to be both responsible and reasonable in this regard. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me that if Panama truly wants to deal with violent underage offenders, it is going to have to both change its laws and/or procedures and build some juvenile jails in order to remain in compliance with Article 37 of the UN treaty.

You are essentially correct, Keith, and I apologize for mistakenly offering the U.S. as an example. Upon deeper investigation, I see that, while was U.S. was instrumental in developing the treaty and is a signatory to it, the treaty as a whole has never been ratified by the U.S. Senate, for which failure politics is roundly cited. Conservative and religious elements claim many of the treaty's articles to be unconstitutional, a claim largely discredited by legal scholars and the courts. However, the U.S. is considered to be in compliance with Article 37--the rights-of-children article in discussion here--as a result of the Supreme Court's having declared the execution of minors as well as mandatory sentences of life without the possibility of parole for minors to be unconstitutional. The U.S. is the only one of 196 member countries of the U.N. that has not ratified the treaty.

Largely as a result of the remarks by the Minister of Security at the recent Tuesday morning meeting, a lot has been made of the UN treaty constraining the incarceration of minors in adult jails and prisons. This rationale seemed suspect to me from the inception since, as Keith points out, there are countries that are parties to the UN treaty, the United States and Canada included, that allow for the imprisonment of minors for certain specified offenses. I was impelled to do a little research, and this is what I found. The treaty at issue, adopted September 2, 1990, is formally called Convention on the Rights of the Child. The particular article of the treaty at issue is as follows [emphasis mine]: Article 37 States Parties shall ensure that: (a) No child shall be subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Neither capital punishment nor life imprisonment without possibility of release shall be imposed for offenses committed by persons below eighteen years of age; (b) No child shall be deprived of his or her liberty unlawfully or arbitrarily. The arrest, detention or imprisonment of a child shall be in conformity with the law and shall be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of time; (c) Every child deprived of liberty shall be treated with humanity and respect for the inherent dignity of the human person, and in a manner which takes into account the needs of persons of his or her age. In particular, every child deprived of liberty shall be separated from adults unless it is considered in the child's best interest not to do so and shall have the right to maintain contact with his or her family through correspondence and visits, save in exceptional circumstances; (d) Every child deprived of his or her liberty shall have the right to prompt access to legal and other appropriate assistance, as well as the right to challenge the legality of the deprivation of his or her liberty before a court or other competent, independent and impartial authority, and to a prompt decision on any such action. It is significant that imprisonment of a child must be in conformity with the law of that country. I can envision no circumstances when it would be in a child’s best interest to be incarcerated with adults, so the meaning of that particular phrase escapes me, but this subsection clearly provides an exception for what may be considered exceptional circumstances. The upshot of this, as I read it, is that a country that is a party to the treaty may adopt a law defining under what exceptional circumstances a child may be considered an adult. This would be in conformance with the situation in many countries that have embraced the UN’s treaty and aims. I would note that the entire treaty carries with it a significant international oversight mechanism to ensure that its provisions are enforced and, presumably, that exceptions such as those noted above are defined narrowly and in conformance with the overall aim of the treaty. I think it is important that both Panamanians and expats understand this and that Panamanian authorities not be allowed to use the UN treaty as an excuse for not adopting stricter laws against juvenile offenders. I encourage everyone to cite the actual provisions of the treaty when communicating with lawmakers and the Minister, as we all have been encouraged to do.

Sometimes "Boquete" is translated as "gap." Other times, it's translated as "hole." Translation programs are like spell check: you have to check them carefully, especially if you're sending them out to someone. When I was in Turkey several years ago, I took my brand new Kindle Fire, on which I hadn't disabled spell check because I didn't know how. I was emailing to friends and family about where we were and where we had been. I gave up when it kept replacing the name of a town with "orgasm."

That sign's been there for quite a while. I'll get excited when I see some ground broken. I can't recall how big the lot is? Do you really think it will accommodate parking as well as the store?

The first dent is the best. Then you don't have to worry about the ones that are bound to come afterword. If you see anyone whose vehicle doesn't have dents, chances are they practically live at a body shop or rarely leave home.

I can understand that the administrators of Chiriqui Life do not want their website to be used for the purpose of directing readers to other websites. I think they offered Don Ray a simple (as he acknowledges) and reasonable solution. I hope he will reconsider.

I don't believe it for a minute. They got caught and are in CYA mode.

Don Ray, I somehow missed your post and the explanation that 14-year-olds and younger cannot be incarcerated at all. I'm wondering if this shouldn't be amended to at least address the nature of the offense. In my opinion, even a 14-year-old who commits murder or attempted murder should not be loosed on the public.

I don't see anywhere that this is an English-only site. I, for one, appreciate getting information straight from the source, be it in Spanish or otherwise. It may take me a while to get through it, but it's worth it.

Thanks, Keith. I'm gratified to know that it's working somewhere. Perhaps the minister is right, that extra efforts need to be made in Chiriqui. I still have problems, though, with someone like the underage assailant in Marion's case being set completely free. At the very least that sends the wrong signal. At worst it poses a significant risk to all of us, Panamenos and expats alike.

Actually, Dan, you convinced me. I've changed my mind and side with you on the no deletion issue.

Thanks to all of you for these cites. It helps to clarify where the authorities are coming from but, as has been suggested, Panama has yet to make any moves to meet the fiscal realities of what is needed to fulfill these aims.

Given that these facilities exist, why isn't Marion's assailant in one? Is there an age limit even here below which one can't be incarcerated even in a juvenile facility? Or is it a capacity issue? I note that the seven facilities enumerated in Keith's post have a combined total capacity of fewer than 800. That's not much, given all the gang activity throughout the country. Is all this space occupied by juvenile maleantes who are worse than Marion's assailant who was released? If so, this is a really scary thought. If not, why wasn't a space found for him so that he is not back on the street? So many questions--which, of course, is not unusual in Panama. The bigger question is why aren't government officials talking about building more juvenile jails rather than throwing their hands up and saying, "There's nothing we can do given the U.N. treaty"?

As I see it, there are a couple of advantages in being able to delete a post. First, you may receive a response that makes the original post irrelevant or proves it to be wrong. Secondly, sometimes posts are made in the heat of the moment which, upon further reflection and a cool head, the originator thinks it best to remove.

Enlighten us, please, Keith. How many? Where? I've heard of one in Potrerillos (or that an orphanage for older kids?). If there are such facilities, why on earth was the underage assailant of Marion Clamp allowed to go home?

Dingbat (NOT Ningbat) that I am, it took me months to figure out that there are significant differences in the landscape and portrait modes on my Kindle Fire and Ipad.

Hear! Hear!

Penny, your first point was made by me in an earlier post, supported by Don Ray. I am disappointed that Panama apparently doesn't recognize this need (for juvenile facilities). There is virtually no mention of it in all the rhetoric about coping with juvenile crime. Your second point is well-taken, too. I was just reading this morning in Newsroom Panama (cited below) about the deplorable condition of public education in Panama. While there may be merit to providing alternative opportunities to gang members to encourage them to change their way of life, this seems pretty pie-in-the-sky to me. That money could be better spent, in my opinion, on building a juvenile justice system and improving education for all Panama children. OPINION; A collapsing educational system Posted on October 28, 2015 in Panama STUDENTS DAY was commemorated with much pain and little glory. While a school in the capital city suddenly ended the school year because its decrepit structure threatened to collapse on students and teachers, the President announced that the government would invest $38 million in improving schools in Chiriqui.Meanwhile the teachers’ unions expressed their opposition to the initiative of an extended school day, a proposal recognized internationally, to improve academic performance. Although the fiscal year is very close to completion, the Ministry of Education continues with a very low budget execution. Fathers and mothers, who must deal with the burden of the frustration generated by the public education system are the true heroes of a Panamanian tragedy, whose martyrs are the students. To the youth of the country we must offer our sincere apologies for the horrible crime that constitutes the public education in the country. We still have the hope of an educational revolution of committed citizens and with love for knowledge .Hoyporhoy, La Prensa, Oct.28 (One of the first things I would suggest is that they take away their drums and replace them with books.)

From today's Newsroom Panama: "PANAMA, has been elected for the first time to the United Nations General Assembly as members of the Human Rights Commission. "Panama was supported by 157 countries. "Ecuador and Venezuela were re-elected to second terms. Their membership has been opposed by several human rights organizations, who think that these countries do not meet the minimum requirements in this field. "The three countries will begin their terms on Jan. 1 and serve for the next three years." This probably doesn't bode well for changing the law re juvenile offenders.

I wrote CO tonight and included a screen shot of my download/upload graphs. For those of you who may be as clueless as I usually am, these two graphs can be found by clicking "connection graph" on the screen displaying your speed test results (after you've run the speed test). This is the image you want to take a screen shot of and send to CO along with your email explaining the freezing and retrieving problems.

I am finding it problematical at times to locate a prior post that I want to reaccess. Usually I can remember who posted it. But unless they've posted recently and I can click on their picture to go to their profile and activity stream, I'm unable to quickly find them without scrolling through all the potential categories. The search function doesn't seem to work for the names of persons.

Rodolfo Aguilera, Minister of Security of Panama, apparently did mention this is yesterday's presentation at BCP. According to a summary of the meeting posted this morning on News Boquete, the following was related: "The short answer is that Panama's laws are based on a UN treaty for treatment of minors. Rodolfo got his Master's Degree in England and is quite sophisticated in his understanding of European thinking. In those countries with advanced social safety nets, minors who commit crimes are shunted to social welfare agencies. In Panama, we have none of that and they are out on the street." This is only a recognition of the problem on his part, however. There appears to be no movement by the government in the area of juvenile justice. Given the fact of the UN treaty, it is unlikely that minors ever will be incarcerated unless the country gets serious and builds some juvenile facilities and institutes a juvenile justice system separate from that of adults.

Is the Art Cafe no longer serving lunch?

In developed countries that adhere to the international human rights mandate that juveniles not be incarcerated in adult prisons, there is generally a sophisticated juvenile justice system in place which includes reformatories for the incarceration and rehabilitation of under age offenders. There is no such animal is Panama. Hence, juvenile offenders are unaccountable for their criminal actions. I've seen nothing in everything that has been said thus far by Panamanian officials that suggests this may be what is needed, together with the intervention measures touted.