Bonnie Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) I had what I consider to be a very odd thing happen to me in Multimax a little over a month ago. I bought a new printer/copier/scanner and gave them my American Express card and my Pensionado Carnet, as I have done several times previously. The cashier asked to see my passport. I told her that I don't carry my passport with me for security reasons. I started to pack up and leave when she spotted by driver's license in my wallet. She pointed to it and said that it would serve the purpose as it is a government document. Like a pensionado visa isn't???? For this and a number of other reasons, I'm going to go ahead and get my E Cedula. Edited July 3, 2016 by Bonnie correct store name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Bonnie There are employees that fear the reaction of their bosses and they only work by the book. NOT using common sense. I have had this same situation and has to show my cedula. Thanks God I have to carry it with me all the time. They did not accepted my driver license or any other ID Card. But I will go deeper why this is happening. We have been invaded lately of foreigners that had a network of people committing fraud with credit cards in Panama. Citizens, specially from Colombia and Venezuela, smarter and with better background and knowledge in this art and craft than local maleantes have been arrested because they were using fraudulent credit and debit cards in Panama's business. This situation has led to some stores, business and merchants to become stricts when accepting payment from credit and debit cards. They wanted to, at least, verify the identity of the person using a specific credit card and prevent any fraudulent transaction. Roger B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) Roger, I just noticed that I was not clear in my original post. And I understand that credit card fraud is rampant all over the world. I offered her my pensionado card along with my credit card, as I usually do for purposes of identification. She returned my pensionado and asked for my passport. I have never had this happen before with a credit card transaction as the pensionado visa always has served as adequate identification. The question is why she wouldn't take my pensionado but, when she spotted my driver's license, said that it would serve her purpose instead, in the absence of a passport. In what sense is a driver's license better identification than a permanent resident pensionado visa? Do you think she was confused? Or perhaps she didn't recognize a pensionado carnet? Edited July 4, 2016 by Bonnie clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Maybe not relevant to Bonnie's situation but I hear from a very good source that the Panama Government is going to start pressing hard on two agendas: 1. No more perpetual tourists 2. All foreigners must have the cedula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, Penny said: Maybe not relevant to Bonnie's situation but I hear from a very good source that the Panama Government is going to start pressing hard on two agendas: 1. No more perpetual tourists 2. All foreigners must have the cedula I heard this, too, but just to clarify: there will still be tourist visas issued, but they will be for six months only. No more border hops. The "tourist" cannot return for an extended period of time, maybe six months. And it is all permanent resident foreigners who must have cedulas, and pensionado visas will have to be converted to cedulas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 It hasn't been that many years since jubilados could get a cedula. I think it was early in the Martinelli administration that the change was made. I am glad that it happened, however, even though it cost a chunk of change. Prior to getting my cedula, I, too, used my pensionado card as ID because I did not want to carry my passport. Infrequently I found the pensionado card rejected, and upon inquiring I discovered that the person had no idea what a pensionado card was. All they knew was cedulas and passports. Just a thought here. Re Penny's comments, I am also hearing that the government is moving in that direction, specifically no more border hopping, and cedulas replacing pensionado cards. On the border hopping, I am hearing that the absence from the country must be 90 days and possibly as much as six months in a country other than a neighboring country (meaning not in Costa Rica and not in Colombia). Time will tell. My major concern about cedulas replacing pensionado cards is the cost of that transition. It is not cheap. We know many jubilados here in Boquete who live on SS benefits only, which makes disposable income very limited. Maybe there could be a streamlined process for this kind of documentation transition for those who legitimately live here and who do not have any discretionary funds available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 25 minutes ago, Bonnie said: Roger, I just noticed that I was not clear in my original post. And I understand that credit card fraud is rampant all over the world. I offered her my pensionado card along with my credit card, as I usually do for purposes of identification. She returned my pensionado and asked for my passport. I have never had this happen before with a credit card transaction as the pensionado visa always has served as adequate identification. The question is why she wouldn't take my pensionado but, when she spotted my driver's license, said that it would serve her purpose instead, in the absence of a passport. In what sense is a driver's license better identification than a permanent resident pensionado visa? Do you think she was confused? Or perhaps she didn't recognize a pensionado carnet? " she didn't recognize a pensionado carnet " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 On July 4, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Bud said: It hasn't been that many years since jubilados could get a cedula. I think it was early in the Martinelli administration that the change was made. I am glad that it happened, however, even though it cost a chunk of change. Prior to getting my cedula, I, too, used my pensionado card as ID because I did not want to carry my passport. Infrequently I found the pensionado card rejected, and upon inquiring I discovered that the person had no idea what a pensionado card was. All they knew was cedulas and passports. Just a thought here. Re Penny's comments, I am also hearing that the government is moving in that direction, specifically no more border hopping, and cedulas replacing pensionado cards. On the border hopping, I am hearing that the absence from the country must be 90 days and possibly as much as six months in a country other than a neighboring country (meaning not in Costa Rica and not in Colombia). Time will tell. My major concern about cedulas replacing pensionado cards is the cost of that transition. It is not cheap. We know many jubilados here in Boquete who live on SS benefits only, which makes disposable income very limited. Maybe there could be a streamlined process for this kind of documentation transition for those who legitimately live here and who do not have any discretionary funds available. In preparation for a meeting with my lawyer this afternoon, he sent me a list of the costs involved in obtaining an E Cedula (at least through office). $300 ($375 per couple) lawyer fees $18 Expenses (copies, couriers, parking) $65 (per person) Government fee $50 (optional) transportation and assistance with the final step in Panama City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 VERY reasonable. We were initially quoted twice that ....and then when it was done, that amount doubled. We asked for an itemization for these "extra costs" and what we received in return was a rude litany of insults and unkind remarks. (It was a knee-jerk response to what the attorney perceived as our accusation of her bilking a client. ) We have NEVER had such a negative experience ever from any Panamanian person here since we arrived almost 9 years ago. When it was all said and done we paid the original quote and the very reluctantly attorney agreed to finalize the work . We immediately left that law firm to find another attorney....which cost us more money as all our corporation work had to be resubmitted with the new firm. It's an experience that left us a might bit cautious going forward in that this firm was one very well known, and at the time respected. Today this same international legal firm is undergoing a bit of pressure all over the world for questionable practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Bonnie said: ,In preparation for a meeting with my lawyer this afternoon, he sent me a list of the costs involved in obtaining an E Cedula (at least through office). $300 ($375 per couple) lawyer fees $18 Expenses (copies, couriers, parking) $65 (per person) Government fee $50 (optional) transportation and assistance with the final step in Panama City Bonnie, I paid a $65 fee for the Registro and $100 attorney fee (plus a trip to PC), although that was 3 years ago. That was the going rate, at least at the time. I used Mayra Lamboglia, who had also handled my Friendly Nations visa. Edited July 4, 2016 by Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Doug Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 The cost of obtaining an E-Cedula is certainly far less than the cost for border hop trips over the life of the card. And of all the forms of ID I can carry (passport, permanent visa carnet, drivers license, or cedula,) it seems to me that the "expected" form of ID to present is my E-Cedula. I can keep the visa card and passport safe at home. Other than having to make a trip to Panama City for the photo, it was pretty painless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyS Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I have a copy of my passport in my purse. I have been able to show that when anybody wanted to see a passport, even at Hosp. Chiriqui (not at immigration, of course - the real one is needed when leaving or entering Panama). I never carry my actual passport unless I know I'm going to need it for something. I do carry my original Pensionado card and driver's license. I've never had anybody refuse my IDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Bonnie said: Do you think she was confused? Or perhaps she didn't recognize a pensionado carnet? Bonnie: Well. It is probably that she did not recognize the pensionado carnet and also she lacks of knowledge, that her manager should know and instruct them, about those other LEGAL forms of identification in Panama. I guess that she accepted the driver's license because she is more aware of that document. As I always say, it is a management task to keep their employees instructed about things and procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Penny said: Maybe not relevant to Bonnie's situation but I hear from a very good source that the Panama Government is going to start pressing hard on two agendas: 1. No more perpetual tourists 2. All foreigners must have the cedula Penny I am not aware of the new legislations regarding immigration issues but looks like there will be some changes and there will be a program for "legalizing" its migratory status for some foreigners in Panama. But all of this has its reason and genesis. There is a huge amount of foreign people from Colombia and Venezuela that are illegal. Come to Panama as "tourist" and to "visit" some family living here and stay in the country illegally. Sounds familiar with what is happening in the US. WE are a very small country with barely 3.5 million inhabitants and we have about one million of foreign people living in Panama legally and illegally. Some of them are good and hard working people but others come with another agenda not so good. Of course that this situation is growing bigger and there are some legisladores crying aloud to the president to do something about immigration policies. Of course that this could affect foreign people, in general, living in Panama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Bonnie said: In preparation for a meeting with my lawyer this afternoon, he sent me a list of the costs involved in obtaining an E Cedula (at least through office). $300 ($375 per couple) lawyer fees $18 Expenses (copies, couriers, parking) $65 (per person) Government fee $50 (optional) transportation and assistance with the final step in Panama City Bonnie I have made clear my..... special feelings... about lawyers but thoses lawyers fees for a E Cedula!!! Ok. They need to make money and have a living salary but.... I am not sure if you may need a lawyer for obtaining your E-Cedula if you have all your papers right and correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieElaine Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Bonnie, Would you care to name the lawyer that is charging so little for your E Cedula please? I have heard that the process for pensionado is over $1,000 per person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Roger B said: Bonnie I have made clear my..... special feelings... about lawyers but thoses lawyers fees for a E Cedula!!! Ok. They need to make money and have a living salary but.... I am not sure if you may need a lawyer for obtaining your E-Cedula if you have all your papers right and correct. Another, rather unpopular, phantom abogado was clipping people $500 for the service when the program started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, MarieElaine said: Bonnie, Would you care to name the lawyer that is charging so little for your E Cedula please? I have heard that the process for pensionado is over $1,000 per person. These are two different things, Marie. Residency status (such as a Pensionado visa) is a pre-cursor to obtaining an E-Cedula. Edited July 4, 2016 by Keith Woolford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieElaine Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Can I skip the pensionado and go straight to the ECedula? It seems so much cheaper! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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