Bonnie Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) We're coming off an hour and a half electrical outage and have had several others of shorter duration this week. The longer I live here, the more annoying this becomes because I can't see much if any improvement in nine years.This leads me start a discussion on electrical services in Panama. It's my understanding that Union Fenosa is a Spanish company that provides electric service throughout the country. Is that correct? That the government plays no part in electrical services to its citizens? Even if power is supplied by a private entity, doesn't the government endorse that provision and have some authority to demand improvements?With Panama striving to be a first world country, I can't understand why it hasn't addressed the issue of dependable delivery of electricity. It's not rocket science anymore. Edited October 25, 2015 by Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelyn Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Bonnie: I've been in Panama only a few years and I agree with your thoughts about the electrical services! Very annoying to have guests for dinner and ...what...we're in the dark again, plus uncooked food! Or what about that television program that you will never know how the story ends.A generator helps, but expensive and not readily available for purchase (maybe have it shipped from US and be sure it works on diesel fuel).Bottom line is this electricity interruption is frequent and no showing of improvement that I have seen. I think the incomplete hydroelectric plant (protests may stop) will provide extra generation capacity, but what about distribution? Distribution is where the real problems are to my husband's way of thinking.I'm wondering if most people just accept this problem as a way of life here in Panama? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Generators are great for long-term outages, but less so for shorter ones. By the time you make the changes and get them started, the power usually comes back on. (In fact, we joke that we need to get the generator going just so the electricity will resume.) There are generators that come on automatically, but they must be shipped from the States, I understand, and are outrageously expensive. Moreover, few workmen here are familiar with them when any kind of maintenance is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantah Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Union Fenosa is also responsible for the street lights in Boquete. Last year it took 10 visits to the UF office and 10 months to fix the burnt out one on my block. Accountability, hah! It is burnt out again. Lets see how long it takes this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tosch Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 not sure if this will change anything but Union Fenosa was just bought by another energy company. However, at least some of the problem is due to our location which exposes us to powerful lightning activity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Bonnie there is a government agency that regulates the utilities like electricity, phone and water. It is called ASEP (Autoridad Nacional de Los Servicios Publicos). They are like the ACODECO for utilities. In that authority you could file your complains and claims if you are not satisfied with the bills, you wanted to report a problem with the electrical company, etc. http://asep.gob.pa/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 MarcelynGenerators of all types and capacity can be adquired in Panama. There are a large amount of company that sells generator according to your need. From small ones that give you 1000 watts to larger one used in Hotels, Hospitals and large supermarkets. Try Novey, Cochez and Do It Center, even Price Smart.Remember that you are living in a country side province. In a semi rural area. So problems with transmission of energy are more frequent there than in Panama City or other big cities. I live in PC and I haven't had power a couple of times this year for a couple of hours because a speeding driver hit a light post and the other day because a lightning stroke a light post and the transformer exploded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger B Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 There are another systems available. You could buy an Inverter system with a bank of deep cycle batteries. Depending the amount of power needed you should buy a larger or smaller Inverter and also the amount of batteries. When the power goes off this invertir in a second will switch to the battery banks for energy. It is done automatically and you will only notice a small flicker in the lights and nothing more. It is very quiet, no fumes, maintenance is very little. There are some companies in Panama selling this type of systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Expanding on what Roger said, a large number of houses in our neighborhood have installed solar systems. We use ours primarily for back-up in the case of power outages because batteries are a significant investment and their life is determined by how often they cycle. We could almost live off the grid if we wanted to replace batteries every few years.This is a very expensive solution, but it is also very elegant compared to using a generator in that the switching between grid and solar inverter happens so fast that we normally don't even know that there has been a power outage. The first clue is that some of our neighbors houses are black.We have had several instances where the power outage lasted for several days and we were able to live normally with the exception of curtailing use of 220 V appliances. I consider it to be the best investment we have made in Panama and I recommend that anyone who is considering building a new home include it in the electrical design. As Roger said, there is no noise, no fumes, and no run to the gas station to buy more diesel or gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Jim, what is the source of your information that Union Fenosa has been bought out? That would be a good start, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tosch Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Bonnie, I am sorry, but, I knew this question was coming. I watch Bloomberg every morning but I couldn't find this reference. What I have found is that Union Fenosa is on the market constantly. But, I repeat if you live where there is snow, hurricanes and lightning you are going to lose light and it is not the fault of your supplier. For the next few months I have no idea if winds will blow down , lightning will destroy or everything will be great, such is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Union Fenosa hasn't been around for a long time but names stick. U.F. was acquired in 2009 by parent Gas Natural Fenosa, a major European energy group whose primary focus is the natural gas distribution business, for about 16.8 billion Euros. Based in Barcelona but operating in Spain, Italy, Morocco, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Colombia, and Panama, GNF has a client base of about 10,000,000. Edited October 25, 2015 by Keith Woolford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Generators are great for long-term outages, but less so for shorter ones. By the time you make the changes and get them started, the power usually comes back on. (In fact, we joke that we need to get the generator going just so the electricity will resume.) There are generators that come on automatically, but they must be shipped from the States, I understand, and are outrageously expensive. Moreover, few workmen here are familiar with them when any kind of maintenance is needed.We're coming off an hour and a half electrical outage and have had several others of shorter duration this week. The longer I live here, the more annoying this becomes because I can't see much if any improvement in nine years.This leads me start a discussion on electrical services in Panama. It's my understanding that Union Fenosa is a Spanish company that provides electric service throughout the country. Is that correct? That the government plays no part in electrical services to its citizens? Even if power is supplied by a private entity, doesn't the government endorse that provision and have some authority to demand improvements?With Panama striving to be a first world country, I can't understand why it hasn't addressed the issue of dependable delivery of electricity. It's not rocket science anymore.Our 1000 VA battery backup UPS carried the router and TV through the whole outage which is convenient. (except for the beeping)There is a new parallel national grid currently being constructed. I remember post.ning a progress report some time back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF13 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It all comes down to cost. In Canada winter electricity supply was essential. Here, not so much. I have been looking into a 5kw genny but so far, have not been able to justify the cost. So the lights go out, sio what? My propane stove runs without electricity, my UPS systems keep me in internet access for several hours, my water is gravity fed, I have lots of 12 volt lamps and flashlights. What more does a boy need ? So you can't see the latest episode of real housewives, but maybe that's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Apparently you didn't live here during the floods, John, when the power was out for days. Lots of people saw the light (no pun intended)then and bought a generator.The point of my starting this discussion was to question why no improvements seem to have been made in electrical service delivery over the course of many years. I recognize that we all deal with power outages in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF13 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Bonnie, I wasn't being flippant, merely realistic. I went through a 21 day power outage in the dead of winter in Canada, where no electricity means no water, no heat and the consequences could be fatal. Here, not so much. After the power outage I went off-grid and ran my own power station for 5 years. I know the ins and outs of generators batteries, inverters and solar power, along with the need to load balance so my equipment would not be overloaded. Why have improvements not been made? Look at your power bill, the amount you pay is minimal, the subsidies are huge. No money means no improvement, that's simple economics. I just don't understand people who want a $40 monthly bill but think that Cadillac service is a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Unfortunately, the amount I pay is not minimal; it averages $150 a month. We've known for years that something is wrong, but neither Union Fenosa nor four different electricians can track the problem down. We've put in a new meter (saved about $25 a month), added a power surge protector, trimmed trees, etc., etc., to no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelyn Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 JohnF13, Here's my "don't understand": my FB friend bought a pair of socks (maybe in the dark) and has to take one sock back to store because it is too small or is that sock too large?what a puzzle!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Too much "Who cares?" stuff on Facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Bonnie, sounds like someone is hitchhiking off your meter. Have an electrician check to see if there is a line going to somewhere that is NOT your property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelyn Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 JoJo: we had an electrician check our meter. Found no "hitch hikers". He did install a new device because the old meter was exposed at the street and front panel was filled with water. The electrician added cover over new meter that includes a heavy duty lock, too. Expensive! We have also been shifting to LED lamps. Lowered our electricity bill by a few dollars but the monthly charge is over $200.00. Still working on this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Something like 65% of all demand for electrical power in Panama is for air conditioning, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelyn Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Wonder if the people who need all this electricity for air conditioning live in PC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Wolf Technology Group Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I lived in Panama City for two years. Electric bill was always $250+ per month due to the air conditioner running 24/7. Now I am very happy with an electric bill that runs $40-$50 and no air conditioner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Sure. The biggest demand for power is in the biggest centers, and at the lowest elevations.I made the point because using AC in the home here can spin your electric meter like an old 78.Other consumption hogs are electric stoves, dryers, and water heaters, all of which can be operated far more cost-effectively here with gas.Hopefully conservation and new technology will save the planet from ourselves. Edited October 26, 2015 by Keith Woolford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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