JimAndNena

Even more interesting, or perhaps not, is the first history of this experiment years earlier.  Monrovia, Liberia was named for James Monroe.  Given the history of development of that country, Chiriqui was fortunate to have dodged that bullet.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/liberia

jim

9 minutes ago, JohnF13 said:

Ahhh, the vagaries of the interweb.  Personally, I blame Al Gore...

I blame him for global warming too, John.  I tried the link from my English keyboard and it did not work. Who knows?

As for finding stuff in the stores, you must send the sales person to the back to look, sometimes twice.  That is not a guarantee that they have what you want, but they often find something better back there.  The warehouse area is not quite as organized as you might think.

jim

10 hours ago, Bonnie said:

Thanks, John. Actually, I had already thought of that. I have a covered porch and two plugs out there. Do you know what these lights are actually called so when I go to Ivan's or wherever I don't flounder around all day?

Jim, you have expressed my sentiments exactly. Every minute that the power is off seems like 30 minutes to me. I guess I'm a wuss.

You are not a wuss, Bonnie. Anyone who can last more than 2 years in Boquete and not be born there is no wuss.  Nena was born there and escaped to David to live with her aunts as soon as she could. Out of the nine sibs, only one still lives in Boquete.

The lamps you might check on are Lamparas de Emergencia Recarg. Here are some at Doit Center:

http://www.doitcenter.com.pa/tienda/home.php?cat=3032001

jim

OMG.

Our power in Texas never goes off. Once it was off 2 hours when a neighbor's tree limb fell on a line but that was years ago.

Reading the posts on fickle Fenosa, and our power goes off!  Since the sun is shining and the temps are perfect, I was going to pick up where I left off in my current book.  Instead, I decided this was a sign to run the generator that I neglected all winter (we only had 4 days where the temps reached freezing).

I filled the gas, connected the cable, and was just about to start it when the power came back on.  So, I decided it was too much trouble for such a nice day and put everything away.

It was the LONGEST ten minutes of the whole year, though.

jim

10 hours ago, John R Hampton said:

If I am ever driven away from this "Paradise Found" it will be for the appalling service of Union Fenosa. There is absolutely no wind outside so why would the power in Volcancito this evening be so intermittent?

It's amazing that 100+ years after the opening of the Panama Canal this country can still not provide reliable electric power. Anybody who believes Panama has moved away from "3rd World" hasn't experienced Fenosa's lame delivery system in Chiriqui.

Can there really be a valid reason for this poor level of service?

Hola John,

I would remind everyone that Panama did not open the canal.  There was a country up north that did that. Panama did have the expansion built but we are seeing how that turned out.

Panama revolves around Panama City, Colon, and the area between those two cities. Of the 3.5 million people, 1,5+ million live in that small area.  Chiriqui and the other provinces are left mostly on their own for problem resolution.  The population of resident expats is of little concern.  Unless expats can prove that the bit of money they spend is of importance to the country's economy, expats will continue to be very far down the list.

I have been visiting Chiriqui for 40+ years.  The locals are accustomed to not having infrastructure that is reliable; mostly they just shrug and keep going.  It is what it is.

jim

1 hour ago, Bud said:

Thank you to all who have come to our assistance. Many good thoughts here.

Marcelyn and I have discussed these new options, and we plan to follow through. Will post the results when we get to that milestone.

Hola Bud,

I have a general question about emergency generators as several folks use them. Is your generator isolated from the mains power when you are using it?  Here in the US, the installation of an emergency generator requires that the main power lines to the house be disconnected from the generator output to protect power line workers.  It also prevents your generator output from powering up other houses on your circuit (which can overload your generator).

As to excessive billing charges like those that Bonnie has posted, many times there are one or more houses illegally connected downstream to your meter and you are paying for the neighborhood's electrical usage.  Those extra connections can also lead to outages and low voltage which ruins appliances as much as overvoltage.

jim

26 minutes ago, Roger B said:

This is the picture of this gentleman that I like the most.  Protecting his followers from the "dobermans" of Noriega back in the times of Military Dictatorship in Panama.  

These were the same dobermans that beat Guillermo Ford in the streets on camera.  Sad day in Panama history. Regardless of how bad the government might seem from the news media, those days were much worse.

19 hours ago, BlueBird said:

 

Maybe my English is not good but why do you and Judy S. say men on this forum and business owners blam the victim for bad judgmet. i do not understand.

Robin, you list US and England as your birthplace.

I did not state anyone blamed the victim. What I did state was the the Spanish news reported the body was dumped AND the homicide chief and his team were called to the scene.  The conclusion would be that foul play WAS involved in this case and it was NOT a case of getting lost while walking on the beach. The usual spin, that IL and others with businesses in Panama that depend on expats and tourists, is that Panama is paradise and safe for everybody. It is just not true.

I freely admit to lacking in politeness but I more than make up for that in honesty, and directness.

22 hours ago, JudyS said:

My first thought was that she had been killed somewhere else, and her body was dumped in this remote spot.  Odd that several men on the forum assumed she was a foolish woman who went where she shouldn't have been, got lost, and died there.

I got the same "vibe" Judy.  Usually the reaction by those who have some business interest to protect is to blame the victim for bad judgement.  It has become a standard response to save Panama's "paradise" illusion.  Panama is a great place to visit; it is just not a place where one let their guard down, especially Bocas.

I do not believe Noriega would have any problem buying anything he wanted. Head of the country that was laundering much of the Latinamerican drug money pays very well. He owned a house near the police station where he spent time while in David. The places up the hill were for impressing guests and/or hideaways for partying. The house in David is in the Primavera area, a plain, middle-class neighborhood.  He also still owns the beachfront place near Farallon, but it is falling down.

23 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

 

This link takes you to the Estonia section of the report, but the URL for Panama apparently doesn't work. Just go to the above link and click on Countries/Regions, and scroll down to Panama.

You are correct, Bonnie.  I just tried the link and it did land on Estonia.  It was necessary to surf to Panama's report. I haven't found anything newer, yet.

Try this permalink: http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm?year=2015&dlid=253031

33 minutes ago, JudyS said:

You ask why an unaccompanied female was in that location?  Perhaps because that's where the killer dumped her body to make it hard to find?

"homicide prosecutor of Bocas del Toro, Yioris Villarreal,arrived with his team to the location. "

The spanish report indicates the body was dumped or tossed.  Suspicious circumstances so the homicide team was called in.  Just guessing, of course.

4 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

There may be some who think that former Panamanian Defense Forces leader and defacto President General Manuel Noriega is old news but the recent controversy surrounding his application to be allowed house arrest has the population buzzing.

Noriega IS old news.  Panama has an immense task before it to clean up the government corruption and protect its citizens.  Any interest in a has-been dictator is purely personal feelings of those directly involved.  It sells newspapers and everyone knows someone directly affected but the real interest should be in making the government that replaced the dictator serve all of its people.

Certainly, the interest in Noriega to expats can not be front page news.  I doubt that Noriega is running a gang from his cell.

16 hours ago, Brundageba said:

One of the biggest problems is "no room in the inn".  Panama jails are already overcrowded, filthy and a disgrace. It is understandable why the UN forced Panama to not incarcerate juveniles.  To complicate the situation, the justice system is snail slow.   The Wild Bill case has not gone to trial as I understand it.  He has confessed to 5 cold blooded murders with evidence.  Last photo I saw of him in jail he had become buffed and looked mighty happy.

Read this:https://richarddetrich.com/tag/panama-prisons/

Two pictures...1. the overcrowded Panama jails, 2. Wild Bill in jail.   Now somehow Wild Bill does not look like he's suffering any.

 

 

Here is a link to the U.S. state department's reporting on Panama. It lists many problems with the prison system, the judicial process, and many other areas of human rights.  It is a bit of a tome but many areas of Panama's laws and working/living conditions are covered.

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm?dlid=252843&year=2015

On 1/26/2017 at 7:22 AM, Bonnie said:

Moderator Note: This topic originally was part of a topic related to a conversation with the new Boquete Police Captain Roberto Espinoza. (See http://www.chiriqui.life/topic/4775-getting-to-know-boquete-police-captain-roberto-espinoza/.) While related to that breakfast conversation with Captain Espinoza, it has taken on a specific theme, that of the reporting of crimes and the results from such reporting. The management of CL has concluded that this spinoff should be separated as its own topic.

---

 

 

I hate to be the cynic here, but my experience with crime reporting has inspired no confidence in the Panamanian system of justice. A couple of years ago my next door neighbors were burgled at midday, while having gone to town for lunch. They returned in an hour and fifteen minutes to find an iPad, e-reader, jewelry, and camera missing. (A side door had been left unlocked, each having thought the other locked it.) Their big black dog was unharmed but clearly stressed. They both were relatively new residents at the time so, as a neighbor and as a U.S. warden, I offered to help with the reporting of the crime, as residents have been encouraged to do.

A call to Rodny had sent the Police to the scene, but they conducted no investigation. They told my neighbor, over his fence, to report the crime at the Police station. I went there with him and, after a long delay, we were sent to the Personaria. I had put together in writing (Spanish) what had happened as it was simple and straightforward. Personnel at the Personaria were not interested in it, however. They said we would have to file a denuncia with one of their "agents" (for lack of a more precise term) and that we would need a translator from DIJ in David to do that. A phone call was made, and finally another appointment was made for a couple of days later to fit the translator's schedule. All of this took a good bit of time. That scheduled meeting was cancelled, however, when the translator couldn't make it after all, so there was another wasted trip downtown. About a week after the burglary, we finally met with the translator (who was very nice and very accommodating) and the employee/agent at the Personaria (who was dour and somewhat intimidating). My neighbor answered questions, many of which bore little or no relevance to the burglary, for over an hour even though this was a very simple matter with a limited number of viable suspects: i.e., someone who could see that they were leaving and who knew that the dog was harmless. Then, to top it off, the agent said the neighbor's wife also would have to come in an give a statement--again requiring the scheduling of a meeting with a translator-- even though, of course, she was with her husband the entire time and her testimony was exactly the same as her husband's. Moreover, there was ample opportunity ahead of time to notice us that she would be needed. After all this time and inconvenience, the neighbors never heard from the authorities again. So much for "work[ing] with and coordinat[ing] followup reports with the Personaria." This was as inefficient and non-productive a procedure as I have ever seen. It almost seems to designed to ensure that petty crimes will NOT be reported.

I am glad this became its own topic.  The newcomers to the area need to know.

I can not recall reading of anyone getting their stuff returned since Lee and friends sent Ozzie to jail, and the police searched his house.  That was August of 2010 when most of the crimes were "just" thefts.  The recent incidents of home invasions and murders is more serious and the thugs are less likely to see jail time with Ozzie.

One item I would like to ask any Alto al Crimen members is the requirement to go to Panama City to get an arrest warrant?  If that is true then I don't understand how anyone would ever be taken into custody.

5 hours ago, Bud said:

I've never heard of the Bar Keepers Friend. In checking the Internet, I see two versions of that product: 

• liquid, and
• cleanser and polish.

The picture in your referenced website shows the liquid version. Can we presume that is the version that works best?

The most important question is whether Bar Keepers Friend (either version) is available here locally. If so, where? Or does it have to be ordered online?

Can anyone provide answers as to version to use and more details on local availability?

Hola Bud,

I have used Soft Scrub cleaner with equal results, this link will give you its chemical make up:

https://www.softscrub.com/products/soft-scrub-all-purpose-cleanser/

Salt, baking soda, and chalk are the main components in the mixture. The liquid version is easiest to use but if left on the shelf the components will separate and settle.  So, don't buy a gallon unless you have a lot of cleaning to do (as in moving into an older home, voice of experience here). 

I think the Bar Keepers Friend became popular about the time ceramic cooktops became vogue.  Bar Keepers Friend has oxalic acid, a great rust remover from clothes, and tarnish from brass, available from the farmacia. It has more potential for skin irritation, gloves recommended.

A key ingredient missing is the amount of elbow grease needed. That is locally available but the cost varies greatly. :-)

You are welcome.

I am told it works to brighten up those hazy headlight lens as well but I have no personal experience with that. 

Agreed, Pederhaney, the "correctness" to which I was referring was in posting a link to the text I pasted from another site. Just showing the source.

All of Bonnie's observations have been spot on.  Whether anyone is listening or not, I can not say.

I tried the cook top cleaner on water spots on the shower door and it worked.

http://blog.timesunion.com/homerestoration/removing-soap-scum-from-shower-doors-4-methods-and-a-winner/2804/

5 hours ago, Bonnie said:

The principal entrance to Volcancito is south of town, so that's how I counted it. I'm aware of the El Salto and Alto Quiel incidents, but they were rare for those areas. I cannot recall any violent crime in the north (Alto Lino, El Santuario, Palo Alto) and very little in Jaramillo Arriba and Jaramillo Centro. Those areas have their share of burglaries for sure, though. From what I've read and observed, I tend to think most burglaries are local in origin while most home invasions have their genesis in the David gangs.

I picked this off the other web site:

Reply by The Boquete Handbook on July 3, 2013 at 5:17pm

Yes, to all these comments and suggestions. There was an attempted break-in last Friday night up on the Alto Jaramillo circle ( up past Los Establos) ( seems the thieves have moved from Sanctuario around to Palo Alto and now up the Jaramillo Centro road as I have heard of a couple of others in this area recently) .Friends of mine were at home, had just retired for the evening so most of the lights were out (about 9.30 pm), someone shook the bars covering the front door and then tried the handle and locks. The residents (who were pretty well prepared) heard the noises, jumped out of bed, turned on all the indoor and outdoor lights and fired off their boat horn. They also called Alto Crimen. The police arrived some 35 minutes later. A search was conducted and the friends report that the police were very professional and polite. So nothing was found and nothing was taken. They do have a dog and while its very handsome, it's quite stupid and did not bark at all.

So..there it is...

 

I will leave the link for correctness but I was interested because I don't remember much happening in those areas.  

 

The teen thugs would have to be from outside Boquete, the locals would know them on sight otherwise.

http://boquete.ning.com/xn/detail/1434455:Comment:380828

Not the best source information.

https://bestplacesintheworldtoretire.com/questions-and-answers/556-what-s-the-crime-rate-in-general-in-boquete-panama

20 hours ago, Bonnie said:

Just one point that hasn't been mentioned here: most of the home invasions took place outside Boquete proper. While burglaries are not uncommon anywhere, the risk increases--and the risk of bodily harm increases dramatically-- when you live remotely.

It also has escaped much mention that living south of town is less safe than living in Bajo Boquete or populated areas that branch directly off of El Bajo north of Cefati. Presumably, this is because the more serious crime comes from David, and south of town offers a quick exit back. The check point at the Caldera cutoff probably has helped, but it does nothing for Los Molinos, Emerald Drive, Potrerillos, and other areas that come before it.

Pantah has listed some of the incidents in Boquete but it is true that more attacks that we know of have been south of Bajo Boquete.  A few of theories may be:

a. location of who has the most loot to take,

b. established neighborhoods of long-time locals aware of who belongs there, and

c. transportation.

The most important factor would be a.  As Willy Sutton says, "I rob banks because that is where the money is".  Expats are targets because they are perceived to have the most loot, be it cash, electronics, guns, whatever. A small plus to juveniles committing attacks is they don't drive so car thefts are down.  Yes, "hardening" the target helps but it also indicates a possibly large amount of loot to protect. Why steal often when one large haul could provide lots of loot.

The second factor is obvious, maybe. If the thugs are coming from David, the locals will pick them out like sore thumbs. When I walk through Nena's home neighborhood, 6 feet tall, blond, toilet bowl white, I attract quite a crowd. The look on their faces when I greet them in Chircano Spanish is shock, followed by smiles and waves. A stranger walking through the same neighborhood gets the same tracking gaze but receives more suspicion than I cause.  This area does not have bars on every window, indeed Nena's parents' house has never even had a lock on the front door.  The neighbors know when the house is vacant; they watch it, plus there is no more loot there than the neighbors have.

The third factor also involves the thugs' ages.  They probably don't drive and if they do they probably don't own a car.  Does anyone know how the teenage thugs get to and from "work"?  Do they carpool?  Maybe they walk to and from David at 2AM to commit the attacks?  Maybe they ride their bikes?  There is very little public transportation after dark in the countryside so someone is providing pick up and delivery for these youngsters.  Perhaps their godfathers give them a ride?

Also absent after dark is police patrols. The garita at Caldera isn't effective even when manned. The single police vehicle, mentioned as still operational, listed enough annual mileage to cover all of district Boquete 3 times a day but I am guessing it makes more David runs than anything else.

In addition to inadequate police response, and no penalties for juveniles, the lack of public awareness of crime in the area among expats and those considering becoming expats is a contributing factor.  I posted a link to the ChiriquiWatch site above. It was an attempt to provide a means for expat victims to alert others of criminal activities as a means to prevent futher crimes in those areas.  A few people contributed but the general response was from folks who didn't want the word to get out that there was a problem brewing.  Whether it was people trying to rent out homes or apartments, sell cars, or add new members to the local clubs, many people voiced opposition to using the site to the point that maintaining it was abandoned.  The administration of the FREE site didn't occur so it isn't current but it does provide a small look into the crimes that were developing in the area.  It has been over a year since the big meeting in the park in Potrerillos and nothing since then.

Will do, thanks!

Hi BlueBird,

Adequate security is relative.  Certainly if one lived in a solid steel box that might be adequate, if not practical.  Your parents should be safe if they have the money budgeted for several layers of security as was listed in this discussion.  Those layers won't help once they leave the house or if they are attacked as they arrive home.

The point of the discussion is that if an attack occurs, you will not have 911 response even if they subscribe to one of the expat provided hotlines for help.  The police are underfunded, rarely have a functional means of transportation, and the follow up investigation is tedious and most often unproductive.  The thugs are under aged kids who by Panamanian law can not be jailed with adults. They are released to a parent or guardian or god father and free to commit another crime.

There is a non-current web site of crimes and locations for the Chiriqui area: https://chiriqui.crowdmap.com/main

It never got much airtime as it pointed out the actual picture of the activities in Chiriqui and made for bad press with the expat run tourist and retirement activities.

Please excuse if I mess this up, I'm the new guy.

I read the Activity tab, chiriqui.life/discover, and I see a lot of political news, Noriega updates, and vehicular incidents which don't appear to be relevant to life in Chiriqui.  Political corruption in Panama is not news for most expats or even most locals in Chiriqui, I would think.  I did read the Welcome Aboard about the activity stream but it is unclear to me how to tailor it to exclude certain items.

Is there another forum or area on the web site with just items that pertain to life in Chiriqui?  I lived through the Torrijos and Noriega years and the elected Torrijos years and it is mostly just ancient history now.

Thanks.