JimAndNena

"So baby, here's your ticket
Put the suitcase in your hand
Here's a little money now
Do it just the way we planned
You be cool for twenty hours
And I'll pay you twenty grand"

Glenn Frey

30 minutes ago, Roger B said:

It is the same rule that is now being used in every airport I travel.  In the US or in any country of Central America and South America.   

Exactly correct.  And it does not have to be just cash.  And it is a cumulative amount of everyone traveling together.  If you are arriving in the USA from Panama:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/195/kw/10000 dollars/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ5MDE5MDAyNS9zaWQvQmxuUF9hZW4%3D

7 hours ago, Roger B said:

Please.  A lady is a lady and a gentleman should always have good words and compliments to ladies in a very respectul way.  It doesnt have to do with any "dating" situation.  It is only being and behaving like a gentleman under the presence of a lady and should not be seen as a personal approach. of any means

This is a cultural/language problem with the USA, Roger. I can have any number of amigas in Panama but only one novia. The USA  does not have a good word for amiga. Our only word is girlfriend and it isn't the right word.

jim

52 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

Yes, but it's still not clear when one has to leave, at what point he has overstayed.

The tourist visa is still good for 180 days. The difference now is that if the border official sees a previous visa stamp for 180 days the odds are he will deny entry to Panama for 30 days.  What is interesting is that I see no mention of the 90 day hoppers for driving privileges. 

jim

9 hours ago, Bonnie said:

I don't understand either. How can you exit by the 5th month while at the same time staying for six months? Paragraphs two and three appear contradictory.

It would seem the "officials" don't have a clear understanding of the current law:

Carrillo detailed that this new measure "is for those who have more than
five months in the country as tourists and leave nothing more than to return to
get in. Now they have to be 30 days out of the country. "

Bottom line: 3 days out of Panama has become 30 days.

jim

20 hours ago, MarieElaine said:

I have to agree with you in principal Jim however, I came here to retire and, while doing business here is a nightmare (I have a friend who started a business in David and after 1.5 years, still does not have a bank account) it is impossible to be here as a retiree these days as well.  We don't work so we are not taking jobs, we contribute millions to the Chiriqui economy monthly and we are responsible for many charitable organizations that help so many groups but we are still caught up in the recent legislation.  If they are doing this to retirees I can only imagine how much harder it will be in the future for people wanting to start businesses here.  

Very true, MarieElaine.  During Martín's presidency, he extended visa time in part because the paperwork to get residency was taking longer than the tourist visa time.  People who wished to do business with Panama had the same problem getting accounts set up, etc.  Panama has shortened the time it takes to get residency paperwork processed, we will have to wait to see if that actually works.  The big test will be following the next election when all the government offices get scrambled with the new administration.

I don't know about "millions" to the economy from retirees, several retirees choose Panama based on cost of living issues.  A thousand retirees spending $1,000/month would work out providing the rent money was going to a Panamanian and not another expat.  The payouts from the charitable organizations was often paid to expat organizations which may or may not have benefited Panamanians directly.  Boquete's lack of activities requires the expat retiree to create something to do; it is still basically just a rural, mountain farming village.

jim

The solution to most of this would be to ask a visitor how long he has planned to visit Panama and mark the visa page accordingly.  Visas are to allow one to arrive at a port of entry; the official then decides the length of stay based on the visitor's answer to the official's question on the purpose of the visit.  Simply stamping 180 days of visit is the problem.

jim

Panama has a number of issues to fix if it is going to become a world player in world economics.

There is a certain advantage to being an English colony as opposed to say a Spanish colony.  And Malaysia is a very new independent country, still with many "growing" pains.  Then there is the whole "other side of the world" thing for Norte Americanos to deal with. Nothing like being able to have breakfast in Panama and lunch in the USA and supper in Panama.

jim

2 hours ago, Roger B said:

JIm

Those statistics only get information of the amount of reports of crime.  Thay is why a lot of panamanians dont trust on government statistics.  Some people dont report all crimes.  Also a few months ago the Minister of Security and President Varela were harshly criticized because the statistics they used to tell people that Panama's was safe and have the lowest crime rate in the region was Murders. 

Hola Roger,

Absolutely agree.  I always think of the quote of Marion Barry, past mayor of Washington D.C., " Outside of the killings, D.C. has one of the lowest crime rates in the country". 

Barry was convicted on drug charges during his 3rd term as mayor and forced to leave office in 1991. He was re-elected mayor in 1995. Panama is not the only country with problems.

jim

I would interpret this as the reporting of crimes is down 28%.

Any statistics on arrests, court appearances, or jail time served? Has anyone heard of any criminals involved in the cases we know about serving any time at all?

jim

3 minutes ago, Rooikop said:

don't worry  I won't send it to Zimbabwe.

Yes we have always been travellers and enjoyed it up to now.

.we will see what happens in the next few days,  but we are running out of time and money.and we might be on the move again. 

Hmmm, South Africa IS an apostille member and Zimbabwe is not on the list.  Ten seconds on a web search turned up this:

http://www.internationalapostille.com/hague-apostille-member-countries/

Sounds like being in the wash cycle with the laundry!  Best of luck in getting out of a bad situation!

jim

3 hours ago, Bud said:

Marcelyn and I were married in the USA, but were successful in getting our US wedding documentation recognized in the Registro Civil here in Panama. There was a tangential comment to this effect in a separate posting here on CL at http://www.chiriqui.life/topic/1921-question-about-attorney-fees/?do=findComment&comment=6072.

We did not provide many details about that process, but would be willing to elaborate if there is interest.

Be advised that we seriously considered "getting re-married" here in Panama, but decided against it for some of the same reasons that Dan mentioned. We did not want to lie about not being married, and, yes, we do understand the distinction about not being married in Panama while being married in the USA. We are glad that we did things the way we did. The process did take a long time, however, but only because of administrative (read "paperwork") snafus.

BTW, our primary motivation for getting our US marriage recognized and legally documented in Panama was related to a person being able to make legally binding decisions for a spouse who is incapacitated by accident or natural causes.

This was exactly how we did it, Bud. Since the Canal Zone was U.S. territory, our marriage was a matter of federal record unlike in the states where it is a state record.  Recording our marriage license at the National Registry was extremely easy, we presented the document and had it added to Panama's records. No lawyers or other professionals involved.  I know of folks who have gotten divorced in Panama who had the decree registered in the state in the U.S. where the marriage is recorded just to close all the legal loops in both countries.  Having legal issues spread between two countries is tedious but getting the details recorded in both places clears a lot of confusion.

jim

57 minutes ago, Keith Woolford said:

It's time for me to start looking for a small, quiet town in the mountains where the food is fresh, the people are friendly and no one's in a rush.

I hear Colombia still have those areas, Keith.  Might be time to move south again. Just don't tell anyone where.

4 hours ago, Twin Wolf Technology Group said:

My point was that in order to get the paperwork to prove our marriage in Colombia, we would need to go to Colombia to get it and upon returning they will not let her enter the country.  So the lawyer suggested that if we could not return with the paperwork, then we should essentially lie to Panama and get married here again as if we were single.   This goes to my point that yet another so called reputable lawyer's  answer is for us it to lie and create false paperwork to get around what should be a simple trip to get proof of marriage.   This is the system here.   Lie, cheat, get around the rules and play the game.   I did it before for 5 years because I was naive.   I am smart enough now to know that Panama is going to keep changing the rules with new decrees.   What the Panama and the lawyer tell me today will not be what the facts tomorrow.   

<SNIP>

Is there a way for us to go thru the system and get her a visa?  Yes.    The cost is estimated at $5,000+ due to various circumstances.   There is no simple way for Panama to look at my residency for the last 8 years and then give her a spousal visa for some additional fee.    On the other hand, Colombia looks at me as her new husband and says I can have spousal visa for about $200 (effective immediately) and then permanent residency and dual citizenship after 3 years.   The process is a few hours long and my passport is updated within a week or two.

All that should be required would be to get a certified copy of the marriage license registered in Colombia, present it to the National Registry of Panama to be recorded and that should be enough.  I'm sure the tangle of laws has increased in the last two score and seven years, but that is how we handled our marriage in the Canal Zone. We married on 28 December, recorded the marriage license in Balboa at the then U.S. federal district court on 5 January, then registered that license in Spanish at the National Registry on 28 January. Cost at the National Registry was B/. 3.05.  Of course, in order to get permission from the military/U.S. government to marry a foreigner took a half ton of paperwork and hundreds of B/. 2.00 timbres.  Also had to make 6 copies of all the paperwork; I still have 5 copies...

jim

2 hours ago, Twin Wolf Technology Group said:

The decision for me and my new bride comes down to how much of a battle we wish to fight vs the ultimate benefits.   One of the many lawyers we visited stated we should just get married again in Panama before we leave in April.  I quickly pointed out that this would mean forging documents to say we are both single when in fact we are not... the lawyer saw no problem with it.   I am a person with both persistence and patience.  I am also forthright and honest.  I will not try to game the system and if that is what is required,  We will move on despite my desires and the life built here in Panama over the last 8 years.

Can't you just register your Colombian marriage certificate with the National Registry in Panama, Dan?  No need to redo a ceremony, besides most countries are signatory to the marriage agreement that is binding regardless of which country the marriage took place.

How did you get married in Colombia if you are both not single?  That part confuses me. Also the visas for Colombia and Panama would be to get permanent residence in both countries?  I don't believe that would work since you should have a permanent residence only in one place.  No wonder the immigration stuff is so tangled. I still have a headache from the hoops of getting Nena's sister her green card in the USA.

jim

22 minutes ago, Bonnie said:

Just to be clear, Steve, Michelle, the daughter, and the daughter's friend all were on the trip and all were refused reentry. 

Now I'm really confused. The Walkers own property, are working in Boquete, and are doing this on a tourist visa? How is that even possible?  If they have work permits, one would assume that would be sufficient to return to Panama. Something is missing.

The following is jim's recollection of how we got to this point. Disclaimer: jim used to drink and he is now old so his memory is suspect.

The tourist visa was once valid for 30 days. Possibly there was a 60 day extension.

During Torrijos' presidency, he overrode the immigration agency and changed the term for a tourist visa to 90 days, with a 90 day extension. The reason was that the amount of time it took to get legal work done was always exceeding the time allowed by the tourist visa. The change was via executive decree which did not explain how everything worked. So, when a tourist arrived at PTY, he was asked how long he was going to stay. If he said 180 days, the official stamped tourist visa and then hand wrote 180 on the stamp.

The combination of executive decrees and laws and amendments is bewildering to everyone, including the lawyers and the "boarder" guards.

19 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

Wonder if anyone will complain about copyright infringement?   https://www.google.com/search?q=montana's+grill+logo&num=20&safe=off&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjS6LPi-63SAhUFNiYKHVTtDK4Q_AUICSgC&biw=1360&bih=659

The logo is not EXACTLY like Ted's Montana Grill, they moved one front leg.

What would benefit the area more than a new watering hole would be Turner's commitment to water quality, or quantity.

"Turner is also chairman of the Turner Foundation Inc. The foundation supports efforts for improving air and water
quality, developing a sustainable energy future to protect our climate, safeguarding environmental health, maintaining
wildlife habitat protection, and developing practices and policies to curb population growth rates."

https://www.tedsmontanagrill.com/downloads/pdfs/TMG_TurnerBio.pdf

jim

43 minutes ago, TwoSailors said:

Not exacetly...2 blocks further north. 

Yes, and I think there is yet a 3rd location but no idea where in David.

jim

I got this link from gmaps,

https://goo.gl/maps/NkdokR19SKG2

6 years is indeed a long time but it was the most recent report I could find. Contact first hand is always better.

jim

11 hours ago, Bud said:

Not wanting to jinx things for us, but we now are approaching three consecutive days without an electrical outage. I can't remember the last time that we have had uninterrupted electrical service for that length of time.

Disclaimer: I am not including fairly sizable voltage variations in my definition of outage.

This is something I have always wanted to do, but during my annual visits I was never able to get enough time.  Bud, do you have a method of recording the mains voltage for an extended time, say a week or more.  And has anyone ever looked at the mains on a 'scope to examine the amount of noise or dirty power or frequency control?  If the frequency isn't accurately controlled, motors such as those in the compressors of refrigerators, and freezers can fail from overheating.

The canal zone has large backup diesel generators for when the water level at the Lake Madden hydroplant gets low. Those generators have been used constantly since the canal operation was given to Panama to supply additional power to the grid in Panama City.

jim

5 hours ago, Bud said:

I could be wrong, Bonnie, but I believe that Casa Decor has shuttered their business (or perhaps relocated?). I was on the Volcancito Road yesterday during regular daytime business hours, and it did look closed down, not just closed at that time.

But then here is a posting from last November:

I'm confused (as is normal for me ).

Confused is good, Bud. It leaves more options open.

I found this bit on facebook (which I believe created confusion). 

 

Casa Decor Boquete

January 15 ·

Patsi and John Phillips have placed their beloved Casa Decor Boquete for sale. There are some reasons for this, however it is not because it is not a good business. The store is a success as they have been in business for three years. Health and personal matters are the reasons for offering the business for sale.

If you are interested in a unique, one of a kind business that offers people in the community a place to consign furniture and home decor in an up scale environment. A place for area shoppers to see the lovely treasures displayed and staged to look their best, then please contact Patsi Phillips at 507 6674 1721 and ask questions or make an appointment. Please, only serious inquiries, the store and the clients are too important to take away time for casual lookers.

It is venue worth a serious consideration. Thank you.

www.facebook.com/consignndesign4u

I hope this won't get me deleted from the site, but we have seen this business discussed before.

http://boquete.ning.com/forum/topics/peneco-sa-upholstery-in-david?id=1434455%3ATopic%3A80893&page=1#comments

Maybe they are better now?

jim 

Panama City began moving west as soon as the canal zone was turned over to Panama in 1999.  The government issued land grants to areas in the Arraiján District and the district was populated with houses very quickly. The main problem was NONE of the infrastructure was in place when that building boom started.  Today, most areas have electric power at least sometimes, the tubing for water supply is laid in on top of the ground, and city sewer systems don't exist to this day. I know this as 5 of Nena's sibs own houses there.

The area is a tangle of roads and Burunga has a population density higher than that of New Jersey.

The area around Panamá Pacífico is beginning to be a boom town once the Metro line and new bridge are completed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2016/03/23/inside-the-most-audacious-real-estate-project-in-the-world/#20262384196f

jim