Bonnie

Eight of us in a Tuesday lunch group returrned to Il Barolo yesterday. Everyone loved their meal, which ranged from Spaghetti and Meatballs Siciliana, to Mexican fare, to a hamburger. The service, too, was delightful. It's a favorite place now.

This doesn't surprise me as they probably are from David and made a quick return to David. I would guess that is the reason that areas south of Boquete are so attractive to criminals, both violent and non-violent.

I didn't mean to suggest that the man was being untruthful, only that he probably was mistaken. There are many snakes here that resemble the fer de lance. (My gardener considers most any snake of similar colors to be a fer de lance and is quick to decapitate them with his machete. I've made some progress in educating him, but not a lot, I'm afraid.)

I recently became aware of the following article by Eric Jackson on his Panama English News site. I am posting it here not to provoke a conflagration or to disparage particular persons but because it is a historically based, provocative perspective on how certain types of expatriates have affected and potentially could affect this country.

Lynnie, when you highlight text it comes across as gray and is almost unreadable.

The problem with having a forum comprised largely of newcomers is that they are still in the "honeymoon phase" of living abroad. Without the injection of some history and reality by the veterans, many discussions become meaningless and misleading.

Thanks, Bud. Those are very good reasons for posting News Boquete items. I hadn't thought of them.

I'll look into blocking specified members if I ever feel the need to do so. So far, no one has been THAT aggravating--just annoying.

Personally, I value the exchange of local information element, i.e., experiences and recommendations re goods and services from other community members. This is the information that is not searchable. Discussion of current local and national issues also gets my vote. I get my "event" information via News Boquete and don't understand why it is repeated here, but I can just skip it. I can appreciate humor being injected into discussions, but I get a little annoyed when folks post humor just for the sake of humor. To my mind, this kind of thing, as well as favorite videos and photographs, belongs between friends, not on a forum (particularly because everyone's sense of humor and taste isn't the same). And I become very annoyed at those who use the forum as a chat room. Chats, too, are personal in nature and have no place on a community wide forum. In my view, events, humor, chats, etc. clutter up the site, making it time consuming to get through. It's not possible to ignore all of this because sometimes you can't tell from the posted topic what it's about. Just my two cents, since you asked.

My reply related to the Palm Pit Viper. The fer de lance is just the opposite. They prefer the lowlands. The upper limit of where you are likely to find the fer de lance is 4000 feet altitude. They are seldom encountered in the mountains surrounding Boquete but a are common in Alto Boquete.

I also have to say that I believe the man in David was most probably mistaken about what kind of snake he encountered. I've never heard or read of anyone stomping a fer de lance to death. They're simply too fast.

And, unfortunately:

Geographic range

Found in the mountains of Costa Rica and Panama. Also found in the cloud forests of the Cordillera Central and the Cordillera de Talamanca at 1,150-2,400 m altitude. The type locality given is "Vulcan von Barbo" (Volcán Barba, Costa Rica).^[1]

According to Campbell and Lamar (2004), this species prefers medium to high elevations from 1,150 to over 3,000 m, and is found from the Cordillera Tilarán and Cordillera Central in the southeastern Alajuela province in Costa Rica, southeast through the Cordillera de Talamanca to Chiriquí province in Panama. It occurs on both the Atlantic and Pacific slopes. [Wikipedia]

In reply to Marcelyn's question, and adding to Brundageba's answer, my research and experience (that I learned at the La Selva Biological Station in Costa Rica) reveals that the most important things are to get to the hospital ASAP, keep the patient calm insofar as possible, and minimize movement, keeping any affected extremity at body level. The DO NOTs, which are as important if not more important, are as follows:

• NO aspirin or other pain relievers. NO food or drink, especially not alcohol.
• NO tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb. In worst case scenarios, thoroughly constricting tourniquets have been applied to bitten limbs, completely shutting off blood flow to the area. By the time the victim has finally reached appropriate medical facilities their limb had to be amputated. 
  DO NOT try to suck the venom out of the wound or cut into the bite with a knife. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury
• DO NOT apply a cold compress or ice on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful. 
• DO NOT raise the wound above the heart. Raising it can cause venom to travel into the body. Holding it down, can increase swelling. 
• DO NOT use electric shock or a stun gun on the bite area.
• DO NOT wash the snake bite area - Australian recommendations for snake bite treatment strongly recommend againstcleaning the wound. Traces of venom left on the skin/bandages from the strike can be used in combination with a snake bite identification kit to identify the species of snake. This speeds determination of which anti-venom to administer in the emergency room.
• DO NOT try and capture the snake. If it's safe you can try to take a photo with a camera or with your phone. This is the best way in aiding snake identification. A snake can bite for up to an hour after it is killed due to reflex action.

Outdated Snake Bite First Aid Treatments

Old style snake bite kit that should NOT be used in snake bite first aid.

The following snake bite first aid treatments have all been recommended  at one time or another but are now considered to be ineffective or outright dangerous. Many cases in which such snake bite first aid treatments appear to work are in fact the result of dry bites (snake bites where no venom is released).

• Application of a tourniquet to the bitten limb is generally not recommended. Untrained tourniquet use is dangerous, since reducing or cutting off circulation can lead to gangrene, which can be fatal or result in amputation of the limb. The use of a compression bandage is generally as effective, and much safer.
• Cutting open the bitten area, an action often taken prior to suction, is not recommended since it causes further damage and increases the risk of infection.
• Sucking out venom either by mouth or with a pump, does not work and may harm the affected area directly. Suctioning by mouth presents a risk of further poisoning to the person doing the procedure through the mouth's mucous tissues. The release of bacteria from the person's mouth into the victim's wound can lead to infection at the wound site.
• Immersion in warm water or sour milk, followed by the application of snake-stones (also known as la Pierre Noire), which are believed to draw off the poison in much the way a sponge soaks up water.
• Application of potassium permanganate formerly known as permanganate of potash or Condy's crystals [or Guber's snake bite potion?].

Doug, when we built our house we purchased two 100 lb cylinders from Tropigas. When one runs out of gas, we switch to the other and call Tropigas to come replace the empty one with a full one. It has worked well. Call Yesika at 6638-5304 (lovely woman, but only speaks Spanish).

Dav, you forgot absolute ignorance of the English language on the part of the Ning administrators. Bob's writing skills, based on the above message to Jaime, appear to be as bad as Ambreen's.

What calendar are the two of you referring to?

I was prepared to post a response to Uncle Doug's inquiry about propane tanks. But that particular posts appears to be lacking a "Reply" button.

I'll say it again: pretty soon the site will be little more than a chat room and a repository for bad information. Most of ning's valuable contributors have either been banned or have left on their accord.

Thanks, Bill and Bud. Great idea!

There is no place to safely relocate a fer de lance. They are aggressive and deadly throughout the country, particularly to people who are far from medical care, as so much of the population is. I'm all for letting non-poisonous snakes and even some poisonous but non-aggressive snakes live in peace, but not the fer de lance.

Is that Cheech or Chong?

I'm asking whether content is "uploaded" to the Roku or IPTV box, whether from the router or the computer. [I always understood that uploading pertained solely to outgoing streams (and downloading to incoming), but your discussions led me to believe that I was misunderstanding this.]

Stupid question here: Since IPTV is available only through its own box, and USTVNow is available only through a box like Roku, doesn't content have to be upstreamed to those boxes from your computer?

A friend sent me this article today about the trials and tribulations of expatriation. I thought perhaps we all could benefit from reading it.

http://www.thecultureblend.com/?p=2473

I am not aware, of course, of all the ins and outs of the treaty and its enforcement, but Keith's example of what Canada does is instructive. Canadian law provides for the "exceptional cases" the treaty demands in order to treat juveniles as adults and provides for juvenile offenders to be held in juvenile facilities rather than adult prisons. In all fairness, Minister Aguilera is aware of this possibility because he mentioned in his talk that more developed countries have the social networks in place (including juvenile jails) to handle underage offenders whereas Panama does not, suggesting, I suppose, that such a network is beyond the country's financial means.

I want to make clear that I am  not in favor of capital punishment for juveniles, for incarceration of juveniles without the possibility of parole, or for the incarceration of juveniles in adult jails. I believe the treaty to be both responsible and reasonable in this regard. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me that if Panama truly wants to deal with violent underage offenders, it is going to have to both change its laws and/or procedures and build some juvenile jails in order to remain in compliance with Article 37 of the UN treaty.

You are essentially correct, Keith, and I apologize for mistakenly offering the U.S. as an example. Upon deeper investigation, I see that, while was U.S. was instrumental in developing the treaty and is a signatory to it, the treaty as a whole has never been ratified by the U.S. Senate, for which failure politics is roundly cited. Conservative and religious elements claim many of the treaty's articles to be unconstitutional, a claim largely discredited by legal scholars and the courts.  However, the U.S. is considered to be in compliance with Article 37--the rights-of-children article in discussion here--as a result of the Supreme Court's having declared the execution of minors as well as mandatory sentences of life without the possibility of parole for minors to be unconstitutional. The U.S. is the only one of 196 member countries of the U.N. that has not ratified the treaty.

Largely as a result of the remarks by the Minister of Security at the recent Tuesday morning meeting, a lot has been made of the UN treaty constraining the incarceration of minors in adult jails and prisons. This rationale seemed suspect to me from the inception since, as Keith points out, there are countries that are parties to the UN treaty, the United States and Canada included, that allow for the imprisonment of minors for certain specified offenses. I was impelled to do a little research, and this is what I found.                                                  

The treaty at issue, adopted September 2, 1990, is formally called Convention on the Rights of the Child. The particular article of the treaty at issue is as follows [emphasis mine]:

Article 37

States Parties shall ensure that:

(a) No child shall be subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Neither capital punishment nor life imprisonment without possibility of release shall be imposed for offenses committed by persons below eighteen years of age;

(b) No child shall be deprived of his or her liberty unlawfully or arbitrarily. The arrest, detention or imprisonment of a child shall be in conformity with the law and shall be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of time;

(c) Every child deprived of liberty shall be treated with humanity and respect for the inherent dignity of the human person, and in a manner which takes into account the needs of persons of his or her age. In particular, every child deprived of liberty shall be separated from adults unless it is considered in the child's best interest not to do so and shall have the right to maintain contact with his or her family through correspondence and visits, save in exceptional circumstances;

(d) Every child deprived of his or her liberty shall have the right to prompt access to legal and other appropriate assistance, as well as the right to challenge the legality of the deprivation of his or her liberty before a court or other competent, independent and impartial authority, and to a prompt decision on any such action.

It is significant that imprisonment of a child must be in conformity with the law of that country. I can envision no circumstances when it would be in a child’s best interest to be incarcerated with adults, so the meaning of that particular phrase escapes me, but this subsection clearly provides an exception for what may be considered exceptional circumstances. The upshot of this, as I read it, is that a country that is a party to the treaty may adopt a law defining under what exceptional circumstances a child may be considered an adult. This would be in conformance with the situation in many countries that have embraced the UN’s treaty and aims. I would note that the entire treaty carries with it a significant international oversight mechanism to ensure that its provisions are enforced and, presumably, that exceptions such as those noted above are defined narrowly and in conformance with the overall aim of the treaty.

I think it is important that both Panamanians and expats understand this and that Panamanian authorities not be allowed to use the UN treaty as an excuse for not adopting stricter laws against juvenile offenders. I encourage everyone to cite the actual provisions of the treaty when communicating with lawmakers and the Minister, as we all have been encouraged to do.