A New Dawn For Security in Panama?

[Dr Sleepwell]

Posted with permission from Rainelda Mata-Kelly, the highly regarded Panamanian attorney:

The issue is that under our Constitution, a law cannot contravene a treaty signed by the Republic of Panama. 

 

It is not that the UN can threaten our sovereignty, it is that Panama as a sovereign nation has signed treaties that are commitments which are valid and binding and cannot be repealed by a law. 

 

Rainelda Mata-Kelly

Tel (+507) 216-9299

rmk@mata-kelly.com

 

Thanks to Rainelda for adding her authority to the discussion of treaties vs sovereignty. It would seem that by voluntarily signing treaties, countries agree to give up part of what might have been considered their sovereign rights.
 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dr Sleepwell

[Bonnie]

Given that these facilities exist, why isn't Marion's assailant in one? Is there an age limit even here below which one can't be incarcerated  even in a juvenile facility? Or is it a capacity issue? I note that the seven facilities enumerated in Keith's post have a combined total capacity of fewer than 800. That's not much, given all the gang activity throughout the country. Is all this space occupied by juvenile maleantes who are worse than Marion's assailant who was released?  If so, this is a really scary thought. If not, why wasn't a space found for him so that he is not back on the street? So many questions--which, of course, is not unusual in Panama. The bigger question is why aren't government officials talking about building more juvenile jails rather than throwing their hands up and saying, "There's nothing we can do given the U.N. treaty"?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Bonnie
additional statement

[Keith Woolford]

Juvenile Criminal Justice System in Panama - July 28th, 2014

This is an ex-oficio report which appears to have been prepared for the United Nations with data from Panama's Ministry of Security, The Public Ministry (Attorney-General), and the Judicial system.

The answers to most of these questions about the system can probably be found here.

https://www.unodc.org/documents/ropan/Technical_Consultative_Opinions_2014/Interagencial_-_JP_Juvenil.pdf

Edited October 29, 2015 by Keith Woolford

[Brundageba]

http://www.unicef.org/lac/JUSTICIA_PENALingles.pdf

In English, more light on a difficult situation.

http://endcorporalpunishment.org/assets/pdfs/reports-thematic/Juvenile-justice-report-2015.pdf

This is the mindset.   This is the uphill battle that is faced here when you have a 13 yr old kid and a gun in your face with his finger on the trigger. "He's just a kid in his formative years"   ( sooo don't go tossing him in jail with the grown up bad guys) So teach him how to use a computer in a rehab facility with computers you don't have and rehab facilities we do have enough of...and oh, he can't read. back to square one.   This is a tough one.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Brundageba

[Brundageba]

Here's a quote from the Organization of American States ( Interamerican Commission on Human Rights)  on Juvenile Justice:

26.     Like the Committee on the Rights of the Child, the Commission believes that protection of the best interests of the child means, inter alia, that the traditional objectives of criminal justice –namely, repression and punishment- must give way to reparation, rehabilitation and social reintegration of children and adolescents through the diversion of cases, or the use of other means of restorative justice, such as those discussed in the corresponding sections of this report, with as little recourse as possible to adjudication and precautionary measures or punishments involving the deprivation of liberty.[29]

The pressure on the Rep of Panama's justice sytem is in the direction of rehabilitation, and that seems to be the message that was given to us by authorities at the meeting.

[Brundageba]

http://www.oijj.org/en/preguntas-frecuentes

In English, a load of information here from the International Juvenile Justice Observatory.  When you begin to scan these studies and recommendations it all makes sense.  BUT when you review what exists here in this country right now in the way of facilities and resources, the Rep of Panama has a VERY long way to go to meet this proposed ideal.  Jails are sorely overcrowded and mismanaged, juvenile rehab facilities exist but are few in number relative to the need.

[Bonnie]

Thanks to all of you for these cites. It helps to clarify where the authorities are coming from but, as has been suggested, Panama has yet to make any moves to meet the fiscal realities of what is needed to fulfill these aims.

[JoJo]

This is an English forum right?  Not everyone is fluent in reading Spanish Keith. Just my two cents which is about what it's worth. 

[Keith Woolford]

This is an English forum right?  Not everyone is fluent in reading Spanish Keith. Just my two cents which is about what it's worth. 

O.K., sorry.

No more links to information in Spanish.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Keith Woolford

[Brundageba]

If you can't understand the Spanish...find the same thing in English.   Keith is providing valuable information...albeit in Spanish legaleese.  (I have trouble with English legaleese !)   Panama with its ailing penal system, a very weak social welfare system to assist in the rehabilitation of delinquents, and rising gang problems is pressured ( UN, OAS, Human Rights organizations) to be fair, be kind and offer alternatives to under aged criminals. The sense is that they get worse in prisons, and in Panamas prisons I'd have to agree.  To have in place an effective rehabilitation effort that works  takes enormous resources: government financed as well as NGOs.   I doubt this will happen over night.  The powers that be are caught between a rock and a hard spot.  So for us....it's duck and cover.

[WryAwry]

O.K., sorry.

No more links to information in Spanish.

 

 

 

Gracias. Oops. How do you say "ummmmm" in Spanish?

[Keith Woolford]

Mighty sad situation Keith.  ..  A very complex problem.  Where will this be in 10 years?

The 'Barrios Seguros' program represents the implementation of the ideals and policies contained in these reports. Young men are convinced to turn over a new leaf if given the opportunity to do so.

To date the program has been successful in Colon and Panama East but wasn't working in the David area. The Minister came here two weeks ago to find out why and give it a kick start.

In order to be effective, municipal Councils, the Church, and the business community all have to be on board. The Minister came back the other day and signed an agreement of cooperation with the Chamber of Commerce.

[Bonnie]

Thanks, Keith. I'm gratified to know that it's working somewhere. Perhaps the minister is right, that extra efforts need to be made in Chiriqui. I still have problems, though, with someone like the underage assailant in Marion's case being set completely free. At the very least that sends the wrong signal. At worst it poses a significant risk to all of us, Panamenos and expats alike.                                                      

[JoJo]

Keith, I didn't really mean not to post the links in Spanish, but let us know it's in Spanish. Most of them I cannot copy/paste to translate it and unfortunately my Spanish isn't good enough to read most of it.  Little words, just little words. lol

[Keith Woolford]

The 'Barrios Seguros' program... cont'd. The Minister asked the Assamblea for, and received, a 50% increase in the budget for 2016 for the program. Although it may not be as sophisticated as an equivalent in developed countries (with higher debt), it seems to be what Panama can afford. I think we have to remember that kids are born into the culture that surrounds them ..everywhere. If it's street gangs, they're either in, or in for a rough ride. There are a lot of films on the subject, this one has always stuck.

[Chica de Chiriqui]

Another reason that the government is not making great efforts to go out on their own from the U.S. and United Nations lean on human rights is because Panama' is cooperating with the F.B.I.'s initiative to dismantle violent gangs.  Panama' must stand with the U.S. to receive the help they offer, they cannot do this alone.

The gang, MS 13, is most probably who have been committing the recent crimes in the Chiriqui area.  Their initiation to become a member is to kill someone.  I was taking a local neighbor today to the Volcan hospital, and as we drove through an area, he said this is where MS 13 has set up.  I have contacted authorities about this information.

Authorities from six Central American countries are working with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) on important operations to dismantle violent gangs - including Mara Salvatrucha, also known as MS-13, and Barrio 18, also known as M-18.

[Bonnie]

I don't see anywhere that this is an English-only site. I, for one, appreciate getting information straight from the source, be it in Spanish or otherwise. It may take me a while to get through it, but it's worth it.

[Keith Woolford]

 Little words, just little words. lol

Understood.

The thing is that most 'real information' in Panama (stuff other than that specifically aimed at tourists or expats) is usually only found using Spanish language search terms  ..and the info's going to be in Spanish.

Translating and editing is time consuming and this was a 14 page document.

Probably the best approach in these circumstances would be to copy and paste the section that immediately interests you and run it through a translator.

I still like free translation.com

[Franagain]

If you can't understand the Spanish...find the same thing in English.   Keith is providing valuable information...albeit in Spanish legaleese.  (I have trouble with English legaleese !)   Panama with its ailing penal system, a very weak social welfare system to assist in the rehabilitation of delinquents, and rising gang problems is pressured ( UN, OAS, Human Rights organizations) to be fair, be kind and offer alternatives to under aged criminals. The sense is that they get worse in prisons, and in Panamas prisons I'd have to agree.  To have in place an effective rehabilitation effort that works  takes enormous resources: government financed as well as NGOs.   I doubt this will happen over night.  The powers that be are caught between a rock and a hard spot.  So for us....it's duck and cover.

I would hope that any and all information related to life in Panama, particularly in Boquete or Chiriqui, be posted here in Chiriqui Life.  The idea that things should not be included here because they are written in Spanish is short-sighted.  If someone doesn't want to bother getting information translated, fine, don't bother.  

There is a great deal of information shared by our Mayor's office, by the President, by the Police and many other arms of the government here, all of which should be part of this forum.  I hope Keith and others will not hesitate to share. 

[Bonnie]

In talking with the police, when Deborah gave her statement, we were told that14 year old was released to the father because the law would not allow him to be held.

15-17 can be held, I have no idea where or if they are. At the time of Deborah's statement a 17 year old was in custody. 

18 is the age considered an adult.

The lady taking Deborah's statement said the police were frustrated because their hands were tied because of the law.

 

Don Ray, I somehow missed your post and the explanation that 14-year-olds and younger cannot be incarcerated at all. I'm wondering if this shouldn't be amended to at least address the nature of the offense. In my opinion, even a 14-year-old who commits murder or attempted murder should not be loosed on the public.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Bonnie

[Don Ray]

Yes, I also feel that there should be punishment consistent with the crime. As I said, this is what the individual taking Deborah's statement told us. 

[Roger B]

Well.  I see that Keith replied to the statement posted here that is incorrect and it is not right:

Panama has no facilities for the separate detention of juveniles (i.e., no reform schools, juvie detention centers, work camps, etc), the Panama government just releases them and uses the U.N. treaty as an excuse for not spending money to create juvenile facilities.

 

Panama is still a thirld world country.... but please we are not so dumb or morons.  Some expats usually assume things that are not right because they don't do the research and investigate and that makes them to express statements without facts that are not true.

I am very please to see that, as usual, Keith is very well informed and help me to post the correct information.  The law that protect minors was passed under the government of President Ernesto Perez Balladares.  The law was proposed by Diputada Teresita de Arias.  Ask any Panamanian about this diputada and the lw for minors and you will hear a lot of bad comments and harsh remarks about her.

Bottom line.  Before this law Panama was severe in the penalization of minors that commited criminals acts but after the pressure of some human rights organization, international organism of human rights and the UN this was changed to give Panama a better grade on human rights.  So I laugh very loudly when I read people here and in the other blog giving affirmative statements that this UN regulations does not force Panama to follow it.   Please.   Read more.  Educate yourself in Panama and all the stuff we have to do trying to be a better country pleasing those organizations and the powerful nations that govern them.

 

Yes.  Almost all Panamanians are asking loudly to the government to do something about this law of minors.  It has been proved to be misused by the gang members and criminals.  

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Roger B

[Roger B]

This is something I posted on Boquete Ning when someone posted that the UN and international treaties shouldn't and couldn't be ignored by Panama and they are not forcing Panama to follow.

 

I am not a lawyer but as much as I know there are treaties that every country that signs it must comply and follow it mandatory.  If they have laws they should be changed to comply with the actual treaties.    For example:  There are treaties for political asylum that should be met.  Right now Panama have been sued in the international court by a lady that Martinelli granted "political asylum" and that was running away of the Colombian justice.  She was involved in illegal wiretapping of politicians, businessman, congressmen in Colombia. Under the government of Varela the "political asylum" was revoked because Panama received a request from INTERPOL about her and she didn't qualify, according to the diplomats, for political assylum.  So she is now claiming that Panama did not comply with the international treaties signed for political asylum. 

 

Bottom line most of the Non Rich Countries should comply with regulations and treaties signed with the UN and other international agencies.   I am not sure about the penalties for not doing so but they should be high because countries try to avoid any problem.   The only law that no treaty could over rule is the Constitution.

 

 

[Roger B]

One last thing.

The changes of the law are being requested by the Panamanians for some years since the implementation of the law.   It is up to the Diputados to pass changes and reforms to the law.  We are looking for a diputado that is not afraid of the political cost, opposition, criticism, etc that this law will arise from the eternal defenders of the criminals human rights.  No diputado is willing to be in the eye of the storm but something could be done to solve the problem and find ways to override the international treaties.

 

 

 

[Roger B]

I did post this on Boquete Ning in August 15th, 2015.  This list the articles in the actual law for minors.   I know that lawyers, attorneys and human rights officials are interpreting the law at their convenience.

The law was written in Spanish... sorry.   But I tried to translate legaleese Spanish into English.  For me sometimes is very hard to understand those words used by lawyers to impress normal people that are not lawyers.  So I apologize for my bad English.

 

Hi People:

I did take the dust on my famous or maybe infamous CODIGO DE LA FAMILIA that dictates norms a procedures regarding family and minors.  I will point out the most important articles just for general culture and knowledge.  It wont be a treaty or thesis about a legal system but to point out that laws exists but sometimes the issue is its implementation.

 

The TITULO IX of such Codigo states everything related with measures against minors who commit crimes or felonies.

 

Articulo 534.  States that minors are not subject to penal procedure.  The minor that commit a felony or crime will be under the jurisdiction of the Juez de Menores (Minor's Judge)  to be submitted to an special regime of custody, protection, education and resocialization according the circumstance of the case and according to the procedures stated in this Codigo.

 

Articulo 535.  Says that according to the case circumstances the Juez de Menores could adopt different measures with the minor.  The paragraph 5, 6 and 7 says that minors could be interned or placed in a facility for their custody, protection and education.  Ingress the minor in a resocialization and observation center.

 

Articulo 548.  Says that when the minors reach the age of 18 years old they should be released from the institutions that have their custody for resocialization and education.   However those minors that repeatedly commit crimes and minors that committed very violent crimes like homicide, drug trafficking, rape, personal injuries, armed robbery, etc the Juez de Menores could prolong the time in custody for a time no more of those stated for adults according the actual penal law.

 

This title is the polemic one in the Panama's law system because is very soft with minors that commit violent crimes.  Thanks for the subject because it will make me to study this code and investigate more about the laws protecting minors.  I have to say that this law was promoted and sponsored by the UN and several World Human Rights associations.  We used to have very rigid laws in the past but those world organizations called us we where troglodites and that we should become a more developed society an adapt this new law to protect minors.