Moderators Moderator_02 Posted March 26, 2018 Moderators Share Posted March 26, 2018 Moderator comment: The best estimate of the current population of Panama that I could find is 4.1 million. If these numbers are correct, then this article is talking about 22% of the Panamanians working in survival mode. Quote 900,000 working Panamanians in survival mode Posted on March 25, 2018 in Panama Farm workers planting seedlings Post Views: 243 While Panama has the highest Gross Domestic Product(GDP) per capita over 190,000 of its working citizens are living on the brink. barely able to cover the cost of the basic food basket says an International Money Fund report An analysis of the data of the Comptroller General of the revealed 190,2225 with formal jobs have salaries lower than $399 per month. The average in agricultural activities is only $292, while in the Ngäbe Bugle region the average salary is $ 249.8. With the cost of the basic food basket at about $316 per month, there is little left for these workers to cope with expenses such as rent, transportation, health and education of their children. http://www.newsroompanama.com/news/panama/900000-working-panamanians-in-survival-mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) I read this yesterday and was very much struck by the amount of average salary per month earned by a Ngobe farm worker . It's not enough to feed their family. Between jobs when there is unemployment in the household they must be self sustaining. That means they can barely feed the children let alone clothe them and buy a notebook and pencil for each child for school. I have heard so many times that Gringos get milked for money . Well possibly. But, when a Ngobe is asking for help chances are they need it. So may things we take for granted....like enough toilet paper, soap , deodorant, laundry soap. We always have these things plus the perks...like toothpaste and a tooth brush. All of them cost money that the extremely poor can't afford. Seriously....consider that ! Edited March 26, 2018 by Brundageba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieElaine Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Casa Esperanza is a Panama wide organization funded partially by corporations that supports the children of the local farm workers for free. They pick the children up, take them to school, feed them two meals a day (many times this is all the food they get) and take them home. In addition, they help with homework, teach English and provide arts and crafts and sports to occupy their days. They even have volunteers who teach music. Education is the focus. Roughly 250 children ages 4 to 18 enroll every year. Each Casa has to rely on the community to fill the gaps of their funding. There are many volunteers who work with the children but money and food is desperately needed. If you have a bumper crop of anything please consider dropping it off at their facility in Boquete, left at Multi Bank, 2 stop signs and on the right partway up the hill. This is a wonderful and safe organization run by local Panamanians that deserve all the help they can get. There are other charities in Boquete that also help the indigenous where they can with food and a lot of churches adopt families to help them get by. I know of individuals who have adopted families and unselfishly provide what assistance they can. God bless them all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Casa Esperanza This is such a wonderful way to share your desire to help poor children. One year there was a very small church (15 or so of us) started. A couple attending decided to have their home church in the USA make a Christmas stockings for each child in the Casa Esperanza school with their own name on it. Another pair in the church began to get donations of toys. Then we collected donations for food baskets. We were just a very small group but that Christmas we saw what seemed to be a miracle happen. Every single family received a food basket and every single child a specialized stocking filled with toys. It is an experience we will never forget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 This report is so typical of the inaccuracies put out by Newsroom Panama. They quote 3 different numbers. Which one is it? 900,000, 190,000, 190,2225 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Regardless.....the average salary of a farm worker does not pay for their food.....if that's accurate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 https://borgenproject.org/causes-of-poverty-in-panama/ Causes of Poverty in Panama. Recent article. A good read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Alto Jo Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Brundageba said: I read this yesterday and was very much struck by the amount of average salary per month earned by a Ngobe farm worker . It's not enough to feed their family. Between jobs when there is unemployment in the household they must be self sustaining. That means they can barely feed the children let alone clothe them and buy a notebook and pencil for each child for school. I have heard so many times that Gringos get milked for money . Well possibly. But, when a Ngobe is asking for help chances are they need it. So may things we take for granted....like enough toilet paper, soap , deodorant, laundry soap. We always have these things plus the perks...like toothpaste and a tooth brush. All of them cost money that the extremely poor can't afford. Seriously....consider that ! I'm still relatively new here, and drive by many Ngobe housing areas daily. These housing places are free to the indigenous workers and their families, right? They do buy food and personal products, but surely they do not pay for water, electricity, rent??? I realize $400 doesn't go far, but just wondering what they do have to buy. I know we try to give our gardener school supplies and toothbrushes and toothpaste and other very practical items for Christmas for his 4 kids. But, just wondering if some of the coffee finca owners don't supply addition items such as school supplies, soap, propane, etc. Extra Christmas bonuses? I guess it differs from finca to finca? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I do not know about provisions provided to finca workers. I would imagine it would vary from finca to finca. The family we care for pays rent for a dwelling that is approximately 25'X25'. It's basically a corrugated tool shed without windows and a mud floor. They have one light bulb. On a regular basis 15 people live in there and sometimes more when extended family come to visit. They pay $80 a month rent plus they pay electric. There are two adult males who never have regular employment. We have supplied a weed eater so that one can do garden work. The other does do some coffee picking with his wife and as well construction from time to time when he can find work. It is not easy for Ngobe to find employment. It can be done...but you have to be assertive and generally they are not. More trade schools that are affordable would be wonderful. Two children have handicaps and need medical care on a constant basis. They go to clinics at the regional hospital regularly. The Comarca would be more user-friendly for them but it's too far away from the medical care they require. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Doug Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The combination of poor diet and no taboo against incest is probably the main reason we don't see very many elderly Ngobe. It's very self-destructive. I've never been a fan of Indian reservations in the US or the Comarcas here. Establishing permanent primitive pockets of poverty helps nobody. A culture change is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Until they had land that was officially theirs they were being taken advantage of every which way. Gold mining companies were making roads right through their property , mowing down houses and basically taking over . A good book I've talked about many times here: Conditions Not of Their Choosing by Chris Gjording. It's the story of how the Ngobe Bugle finally got a bit of autonomy and the Comarca was part of the deal. The book might be found at the Bookmark in Dolega. It's still for sale on Amazon.com . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Alto Jo Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Brundageba said: I do not know about provisions provided to finca workers. I would imagine it would vary from finca to finca. The family we care for pays rent for a dwelling that is approximately 25'X25'. It's basically a corrugated tool shed without windows and a mud floor. They have one light bulb. On a regular basis 15 people live in there and sometimes more when extended family come to visit. They pay $80 a month rent plus they pay electric. There are two adult males who never have regular employment. We have supplied a weed eater so that one can do garden work. The other does do some coffee picking with his wife and as well construction from time to time when he can find work. It is not easy for Ngobe to find employment. It can be done...but you have to be assertive and generally they are not. More trade schools that are affordable would be wonderful. Two children have handicaps and need medical care on a constant basis. They go to clinics at the regional hospital regularly. The Comarca would be more user-friendly for them but it's too far away from the medical care they require. The medical conditions could be improved with better diet and making incest taboo. I know the nutrition schools at Universities here are giving special lectures and classes on the Ngobe health problems, but when they try to convey their knowledge out to the Ngobe they are often told that it is "culture" as to what they eat (very little protein in the diet), and that incest is also cultural and none of our business. It is heart-breaking to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I sincerely doubt that their not eating protein is cultural. It is economic. Whenever I have fed an Ngobe worker meat, he has eaten it like there's no tomorrow. Visit Nutre Hogar in David if you want to witness the results of a poor diet. It's heartbreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Philpot Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 This is always a timely topic, now matter where one lives in what might be considered developing areas. For those interested in getting involved in helping the local indigenous families as well as the poorer Panamanian families, with either money or time or efforts or all, one of the local opportunities is with Buenos Vecinos de Boquete -- http://www.buenosvecinosdeboquete.com/. If, after viewing the website, you decide to take part in a food packing day (next one this Thursday, 3/29) you'll get to see some of the nutritional foods given to 100 or so families each month. And if you then decide to take part in one of the many food delivery efforts later that day, you'll get to experience a slice of the life of these families (may entail hikes or drives into areas off the beaten path), who are so grateful for these small monthly gifts and the kids who have no idea that they are "poor". Hope you can join us sometime, and if you do, at least for the first few visits, it's best to leave your "shoulds and shouldn'ts" behind. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Philpot Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 55 minutes ago, Bonnie said: I sincerely doubt that their not eating protein is cultural. It is economic. Whenever I have fed an Ngobe worker meat, he has eaten it like there's no tomorrow. Visit Nutre Hogar in David if you want to witness the results of a poor diet. It's heartbreaking. No need to go to David to see poor diet habits. These choices abound at many popular places in Boquete. And it is heartbreaking, as you say, to see the effects, though these are not limited to the indigenous or Panamanian folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) R I C E - great big quantities of starch which makes people feel full but provides little nutrition. Edited March 27, 2018 by Keith Woolford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Alto Jo Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 14 hours ago, Bonnie said: I sincerely doubt that their not eating protein is cultural. It is economic. Whenever I have fed an Ngobe worker meat, he has eaten it like there's no tomorrow. Visit Nutre Hogar in David if you want to witness the results of a poor diet. It's heartbreaking. Bonnie, We certainly have a difference in our personal experiences. Thanks for giving me another perspective. My gardener tells me thanks for the food. Then I found out he was throwing all the meat in the bushes unless it was chicken. He basically wants chicken, rice, potatoes, hot tea. Even throws out carrot sticks and lettuce. Other families he worked for gave him chirrizo and canned hams for Christmas, and we learned he threw that out, didn't even give to some other family. He told our cleaning lady that "no one would have wanted it". She's Panamanian, she wanted it!! I'm pretty sure food choices are a matter of personal taste as well as cultural. The other food they seem to eat that lacks much nutrition is plantains. The one thing not at debate is that they need more protein in their diets, the reasons are no doubt financial and personal/cultural. I do know its been going on long enough to cause birth defects, and shortened life expectancy. Let's hope education will change at least the "personal tastes", but the financial is going to be much more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Palo Alto Jo said: Bonnie, We certainly have a difference in our personal experiences. Thanks for giving me another perspective. My gardener tells me thanks for the food. Then I found out he was throwing all the meat in the bushes unless it was chicken. He basically wants chicken, rice, potatoes, hot tea. Even throws out carrot sticks and lettuce. Other families he worked for gave him chirrizo and canned hams for Christmas, and we learned he threw that out, didn't even give to some other family. He told our cleaning lady that "no one would have wanted it". She's Panamanian, she wanted it!! I'm pretty sure food choices are a matter of personal taste as well as cultural. The other food they seem to eat that lacks much nutrition is plantains. The one thing not at debate is that they need more protein in their diets, the reasons are no doubt financial and personal/cultural. I do know its been going on long enough to cause birth defects, and shortened life expectancy. Let's hope education will change at least the "personal tastes", but the financial is going to be much more difficult. What a surprise. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could develop a taste for rice, plantains, and chicken exclusively. This is an eye opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 When Bill & I first settled here 11 years ago we did some volunteer work at a local church that served Ngobes. Once a month some 30 or so pastors would come in from the Comarca with their families for lessons, fellowship, payment and medical services. For three days they had meals at the facility. Bill and I agreed to supply and cook one of the 3 dinners for that entire group. We'd cook things that we considered "special" and a bit different than they were used to in amounts that we were sure they would get their fill. (ie pork, vegetables, cake, ice cream ) We were told after several of these monthly meals that the families were getting upset stomachs and the bus trip back to the Comarca and long walks back to their homes were being made uncomfortable because of the food. ( Don't get me wrong...they appreciated it and did eat it ) Bill and I had to reconsider their diet and prepare foods ( such as chicken and rice ) that set better on their stomachs. It was a learning experience for us for sure. The Ngobe family we care for will go and glean plantains from a farmer that offers them when they had nothing to eat. One skinny yard chicken and a bunch of cooked plantains can feed a lot of people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Woolford Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Sardines are another staple among Gnabes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahren Grauer Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 My neighbor is Ngabe and works as an English teacher at the comarca above Tole. He said the biggest problem is the spread of AIDS and 50% are infected. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Alto Jo Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Ahren Grauer said: My neighbor is Ngabe and works as an English teacher at the comarca above Tole. He said the biggest problem is the spread of AIDS and 50% are infected. I guess I'd need to see this statistic from a recognized Public Health organization, no offense to your neighbor that teaches English. AIDS untreated (as most of these would be if it were in 50% of the population) leads to emaciation and death. I don't see a whole lot, certainly not 50%, of the Indigenous peoples walking around terribly thin, with open sores, tuberculosis etc, which goes along with AIDS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieElaine Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I love the pictures with the smiley faced children of Casa Esperanza and find it hard to believe that only 15 people put that event together for these children. Putting all the other societal issues aside, my focus when I lived in Boquete was the children. The children are the most affected by their parents poverty and giving them "options" as they mature is one of the focuses of Casa Esperanza. I now live in Medellin because the cost of pensionado was too much for me to afford and border hopping became a no-no. I miss the children of Casa, their unaffected attitudes made me smile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundageba Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Yes MarieElaine the Christmas at Casa Esperanza that year was a bit of a miracle....the 15 of us however had lots of help: many ladies in the USA were sewing stockings for months, monetary donations were collected from our community in large amounts. Some of the gifts ( above the children eating on the floor under the table) came from other donors. It was a small group...but as you can see, a few folks can do a lot when they ask for help. I believe Medellin has similar beneficial organizations that help children. Big city. Keep us posted on your experiences there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelyn Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 3/27/2018 at 8:06 AM, Bonnie said: What a surprise. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could develop a taste for rice, plantains, and chicken exclusively. This is an eye opener. We provide breakfast (scrambled eggs, ham or sausage, tortillas and lots of coffee) for our part-time housekeeper and gardener. They also eat lunch with us on their work days. Both happily eat whatever I serve, but a surprise is their favorite food is spaghetti and green salad. Another favorite is roasted garlic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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