Asalto en El Salto?

[Keith Woolford]

There was a Tweet from Noticias Chiriqui this afternoon reporting that a North American was injured during an armed assault by three men at his home in El Salto.

I do not have complete confidence in this source. Recently he had the story wrong concerning Gentleman Jim Kimball's passing.

 

[Penny]

According to my (usually) reliable sources, the man's name is Richard Moore and he was a home security inspector for Alto al Crimen.

He was shot in the shoulder and the leg and underwent surgery at Hospital Chiriqui.

Rodny was not called so cannot write a detailed report for me. Perhaps Alto al Crimen will send something in to news.boquete@gmail.com

Edited January 8, 2016 by Penny

[JudyS]

There is a very detailed report on ning.

[JudyS]

8 hours ago, JudyS said:

There is a very detailed report on ning.

http://boquete.ning.com/forum/topics/the-shooting-and-robbery-of-our-neighbor

[Dottie Atwater]

Do the Moore's have dogs?

[Brundageba]

Shooting to kill through a window is serious business...and that's could have happened to this man.   He lived thank God, BUT will probably have a huge hospital bill and as well an ankle that will never be the same, and who knows about the bullet in his back.  This latest situation is an eye opener.  My husband and I certainly wish Mr Moore a speedy recovery.

[Keith Woolford]

A horrid event for the Moore's and a scary one for all of us. Fortunately, Richard survived the attack I wish him a speedy recovery from these injuries. He is an avid golfer.

There is apparently plenty of evidence to assist investigators.

Alto Al Crimen announced yesterday that they were aware of this violent crime but it's not in their purview to report it.

"Alto al Crimen does not report just on the occurrence of a criminal event but looks into the details of how it took place so that people can implement security measures that reduce the chances of similar events.  Think of our approach as "lessons learned" reports."

As was pointed out to me this morning, it appears they haven't learned much in the last couple of years because nothing of this sort has been published.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Keith Woolford

[Bud]

Keith, with regard to your last sentence: as the Brits would say "spot on, chap". There are some interesting "lessons to be learned" here on the part of the organizations that work on security matters.

There is the immediate "news" type reporting that would have few details, and be as close to real time as possible. Some people would dismiss this kind of reporting, but I submit that there is value in the "news" kind of report for two basic reasons:

1. to alert people in the area to be on guard for their own security, and/or
2. if alerted early on and someone hearing the report was in the area, then perhaps they might see something of interest that could be valuable (the direction of a certain car leaving at high speed, for example).

After the "news" type immediate reports, then there are investigations, and all the other kind of reports that people talk about.

One thing that Rodny has been very good about is his alerts. They may not be perfect, but they are better than nothing. AaC and RD, among others, get to decide how they operate and what their policies are, and should do so given concerns about privacy and statutory requirements, etc. But I remain firm in my opinion that "news" reports (aka alerts) of criminal activity are of value and I wish to see them.

And then I really am dreaming here by wanting every crime to be reported in the public domain. My opinion is that such information would result in a huge public support for better resources for the police, and better laws for them to work with as tools to keep us as safe as can be reasonably expected.

The bottom line, however, remains that each of us is responsible for our own security. No police person can ever be at a crime scene "in time", even if they had a vehicle that traveled at the speed of light. The one exception to the speed of light rule would be if the police person is the victim or just happened to be at the scene when it started.

Faster alerts with as much information as possible are in the public interest.

[Marcelyn]

2 hours ago, Brundageba said:

Shooting to kill through a window is serious business...and that's could have happened to this man.   He lived thank God, BUT will probably have a huge hospital bill and as well an ankle that will never be the same, and who knows about the bullet in his back.  This latest situation is an eye opener.  My husband and I certainly wish Mr Moore a speedy recovery.

It was reported that the weapon was "believed to be a 45 caliber handgun" This is a Clint Eastwood "make my day" type gun. Big and powerful and I wonder how young people could handle such an instrument.

This is a serious weapon and can cause more damage than a 22 caliber gun.

[Brundageba]

Certainly gets my attention !  Just blasting through a huge glass window at a moving target ...then shooting again ( most likely) is horrifying.  Makes you realize how very vulnerable we are here and as well makes us give pause to think about how our future might look moving forward.  ( we're not getting any younger !)  Until this last one, we NEVER discussed selling and leaving.  Now we consider it.  I doubt we will for as long as we are active surfers here....but at this point departure is up for grabs on the discussion table. 

Keith Woolford told my husband and I to get the DVD "City of God" and look at it.  True stories about the youth gangs surrounding Rio in Brazil.  We did get it and I can say it was an eye opener .  All of a sudden you get a glimpse of the mentality of these kids and the evolution of lawlessness.  It's BIG TIME serious business and not to be taken lightly.  If this country does not do something quick, it will be very difficult to unravel here.  Rio is the example of just that.

[Bonnie]

Does Panama even have a fingerprint repository? I thought I had heard that it does not. And if not, what good are fingerprints in identifying the assailants unless they are caught for committing another crime?

[Pat]

6 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

"Alto al Crimen does not report just on the occurrence of a criminal event but looks into the details of how it took place so that people can implement security measures that reduce the chances of similar events.  Think of our approach as "lessons learned" reports."

Question here.

Does this statement by Bob Gregory mean that the role of Alto al Crimen is only that of an investigating organization? Seems that he is saying that AAC does that and also report "occurrences". What does that really mean?

When, how, and to whom is their report of criminal activity published to alert the community? Also, I don't remember seeing details and results of any investigation done by AAC.

Seems the real function of AAC is to talk about security items that people can consider after a crime has been committed. This is good, but where's the report that a robbery, break-in, shooting, etc. happened?

I want to learn about a criminal activity close to when it happened.

[Bonnie]

7 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

A horrid event for the Moore's and a scary one for all of us. Fortunately, Richard survived the attack I wish him a speedy recovery from these injuries. He is an avid golfer.

There is apparently plenty of evidence to assist investigators.

Alto Al Crimen announced yesterday that they were aware of this violent crime but it's not in their purview to report it.

"Alto al Crimen does not report just on the occurrence of a criminal event but looks into the details of how it took place so that people can implement security measures that reduce the chances of similar events.  Think of our approach as "lessons learned" reports."

As was pointed out to me this morning, it appears they haven't learned much in the last couple of years because nothing of this sort has been published.

 

 

To Keith's observations, I would add the following.

Richard Moore is a (former) volunteer with AAC. He gave of his time and expertise on behalf of the organization without compensation. When he was struck by tragedy, rather than jumping in to report the assault and expressing concern for his health, AAC said nothing until incorrect information had spread through the community. When AAC finally issued a public statement, it made no mention of Mr. Moore's AAC service, expressed no concern for him. Rather the announcement consisted of an excuse for why AAC, that claims to be foremost crime prevention organization in the community, didn't report anything sooner.

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Bonnie

[JohnF13]

I am all for lmmidiate reporting with details to follow.  While there is a chance of more accidental false reporting that way, it does alert people and, quite frankly, we all do need to be more alert.  Speculation on the size of gun is likely not of much use, while a large calibre weapon will cause a bigger hole a .22 can cause much more damage due to the characteristics of the bullets.  It really depends on the make-up of the bullet and getting into a technical discussion on that would just send most people to sleep.  I think the big thing here, as has been demonstrated previously, is that these gang members have absolutely no fear of shooting someone.  That is the scarey part and the one thing that most Expats still don't believe will happen.  We have to get past the notion that if we are submissive then all that will happen is the maleantes will steal money and goods.  As others have said, we, as individuals, are responsible for our own safety.  I read a good line on another venue yesterday - " when seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

[Keith Woolford]

Pitifully, one of the "lessons learned" here, for me at least, is that any further support of AAC is a waste of time and money.

[Marcelyn]

Just my input on the AAC activities, but it appears that the investigative reports claimed to be done by this organization is what I expect the local police to do.

Is there something here I don't understand?

[Brundageba]

14 hours ago, Bonnie said:

Does Panama even have a fingerprint repository? I thought I had heard that it does not. And if not, what good are fingerprints in identifying the assailants unless they are caught for committing another crime?

Good question !  My thoughts as well.

[Brundageba]

2 hours ago, JohnF13 said:

I am all for lmmidiate reporting with details to follow.  While there is a chance of more accidental false reporting that way, it does alert people and, quite frankly, we all do need to be more alert.  Speculation on the size of gun is likely not of much use, while a large calibre weapon will cause a bigger hole a .22 can cause much more damage due to the characteristics of the bullets.  It really depends on the make-up of the bullet and getting into a technical discussion on that would just send most people to sleep.  I think the big thing here, as has been demonstrated previously, is that these gang members have absolutely no fear of shooting someone.  That is the scarey part and the one thing that most Expats still don't believe will happen.  We have to get past the notion that if we are submissive then all that will happen is the maleantes will steal money and goods.  As others have said, we, as individuals, are responsible for our own safety.  I read a good line on another venue yesterday - " when seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

YES !~   Well said.  Get the DVD " City of God"  to get a feel for the mentality of these kid criminals.  It's a documentary on all the kid gangs from communities that surround Rio in Brazil.  It's very difficult to truly comprehend the mindset of the kid behind the gun.  This movie was a real eye opener for Bill and I and I thank Keith Woolford for telling us about it.  When Joe raised his hands in a gesture of surrender...what happened?...they  shot him dead on the spot.  Consider Marion Clamp and how her life has changed.   We are on our own here. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by Brundageba

[Bud]

Okay. I've ordered the DVD from Amazon. Do you provide the popcorn?

Not wanting to go off-topic, but I have to add this sidebar: The write up about the DVD says it is about the slums of Rio. I've been there and seen it firsthand. Not a place I would live in (or even near). While reading the description of the DVD, I had a flashback to my first trip to the Rio area. It was a loooooooooong time ago. The newspaper headlines the morning after seeing the slums was of a girl of about 14 years age that had died the night before. She lived in a cardboard box, and had been eaten alive by rats. I am sure many people would discount a comparison of the slums of Rio to the situation here in our area.

[JohnF13]

In a lot of the recent cases we are speculating and guessing.  What, I think, needs to be done is prepare a list of common questions and interview each victim to see if there are any commonalities.  Questions could include location, security (window bars etc), does the person live alone (or were they alone at the time) did they just come from the bank with cash, do they have a description and what happened.  That way we could all see if there is a modus operandi and if so, what can be done to disrupt the cycle.  One person with a balanced mix of empathy and forcefulness (probably the wrong word) should do that so that the results would have a common baseline free of individual biases.  This would not be a quick study as victims may not want to talk about their experiences immediately after the fact.

[TwoSailors]

OK.... lot of great info here.We registered with AAC back in June and it took over two months to get confirmation of our signing up. Granted they were having problems at the time.

Now we have moved, in November, and we are still waiting on notification that they have received our change of address.  

From this discussion it appears that AAC is not providing timely and very useful information regarding attacks that have just happened like in El Salto. We for one think a little bit of info is a lot better than no info!!

So the question:.... Is Rodney Direct better??..... How about a vote?

Thanks!

[Brundageba]

43 minutes ago, Bud said:

Okay. I've ordered the DVD from Amazon. Do you provide the popcorn?

Not wanting to go off-topic, but I have to add this sidebar: The write up about the DVD says it is about the slums of Rio. I've been there and seen it firsthand. Not a place I would live in (or even near). While reading the description of the DVD, I had a flashback to my first trip to the Rio area. It was a loooooooooong time ago. The newspaper headlines the morning after seeing the slums was of a girl of about 14 years age that had died the night before. She lived in a cardboard box, and had been eaten alive by rats. I am sure many people would discount a comparison of the slums of Rio to the situation here in our area.

Talking about mindset of children who have learned a life of crime very early.  Rio's the end of the story that is just beginning here.

[Brundageba]

22 minutes ago, TwoSailors said:

OK.... lot of great info here.We registered with AAC back in June and it took over two months to get confirmation of our signing up. Granted they were having problems at the time.

Now we have moved, in November, and we are still waiting on notification that they have received our change of address.  

From this discussion it appears that AAC is not providing timely and very useful information regarding attacks that have just happened like in El Salto. We for one think a little bit of info is a lot better than no info!!

So the question:.... Is Rodney Direct better??..... How about a vote?

Thanks!

Yes.  RD is your better choice.  Prompt information on crimes to members.  Secured data base that is much more comprehensive.  Years of experience and knowledge.  Follow up with customers who have utilized his service, ongoing until the case is well in the hands of justice.  I know i can call him 24/7 ...and receive the help/information I need.  All of that is extremely important these days.  If you have moved 2 mos ago, filed a change of addy and as yet are not 100% sure the service has registered that...then you may not have the service you think you have.  When I press the "call Rodney button"...I KNOW help is on the way...to my house here where i live.

[Keith Woolford]

2 hours ago, Bud said:

2 hours ago, Bud said:

Okay. I've ordered the DVD from Amazon. Do you provide the popcorn?

Not wanting to go off-topic, but I have to add this sidebar: The write up about the DVD says it is about the slums of Rio. I've been there and seen it firsthand. Not a place I would live in (or even near). While reading the description of the DVD, I had a flashback to my first trip to the Rio area. It was a loooooooooong time ago. The newspaper headlines the morning after seeing the slums was of a girl of about 14 years age that had died the night before. She lived in a cardboard box, and had been eaten alive by rats. I am sure many people would discount a comparison of the slums of Rio to the situation here in our area.

Okay. I've ordered the DVD from Amazon. Do you provide the popcorn?

Not wanting to go off-topic, but I have to add this sidebar: The write up about the DVD says it is about the slums of Rio. I've been there and seen it firsthand. Not a place I would live in (or even near). While reading the description of the DVD, I had a flashback to my first trip to the Rio area. It was a loooooooooong time ago. The newspaper headlines the morning after seeing the slums was of a girl of about 14 years age that had died the night before. She lived in a cardboard box, and had been eaten alive by rats. I am sure many people would discount a comparison of the slums of Rio to the situation here in our area.

This story is not married to Rio de Janeiro.

The theme of perpetual corruption of disadvantaged youth is repeated in tough neighbourhoods everywhere.

There may not be too many slums around Boquete but there are plenty of rough areas in and around David, Panama City and Colon.

The film is included on Amazon Prime if you're a subscriber. Nominated for 4 Academy Awards. Roger Ebert http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/city-of-god-2003

http://www.amazon.com/City-English-Subtitled-Alexandre-Rodrigues/dp/B006LG7MWG/ref=sr_1_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1452441529&sr=1-1&keywords=city+of+god

Edited January 10, 2016 by Keith Woolford

[Keith Woolford]

2 hours ago, JohnF13 said:

In a lot of the recent cases we are speculating and guessing.  What, I think, needs to be done is prepare a list of common questions and interview each victim to see if there are any commonalities.  Questions could include location, security (window bars etc), does the person live alone (or were they alone at the time) did they just come from the bank with cash, do they have a description and what happened.  That way we could all see if there is a modus operandi and if so, what can be done to disrupt the cycle.  One person with a balanced mix of empathy and forcefulness (probably the wrong word) should do that so that the results would have a common baseline free of individual biases.  This would not be a quick study as victims may not want to talk about their experiences immediately after the fact.

Agreed but if I'm not mistaken John, that's what AAC was supposed to be doing.