SP87

9 hours ago, MarieElaine said:

Hi SP87,

I was just informed by Carmen at PGLS that the 2 year visa has been cancelled as of May 31st.  Do you have any knowledge of this?  Carmen is a lawyer and may just be trying to encourage me to go for the Pensionado with her so I do not necessarily trust what I am being told.  Since you have gone through it, could you please provide me with the website where I apply?  Did you pay $517?

Also, I was told this was a residency visa so you should be ok with a one way ticket.  In Europe you cannot apply for permanent residency for 3 - 4 years (depending on type of visa) and the temporary 12 month visas are considered residency until permanent residency can be obtained.  

Thanks for your help with this.

I guess I should have been clearer about my situation. I am married to a Panamaian. So I applied for residency under the family class "permanent residency as married to a Panamanian" 

But with this, they first give you 2 year temporary residency and after that you are granted permanent residency. 

I've recently gotten my "Permanencia Provisional" card which gives me two year temporary residency before receiving my Permanent Status and cédula. My lawyer said I am now considered a resident but my question for any of you is:

Whenever I have flown back to Panama as a tourist (every single time in the past 4 years I've been here) the airports I'm departing from (in the USA and Canada) when I check in at the counter they ask if I'm a resident of Panama (since I'm flying back to Panama on a one way and Panama requires tourist to have an exit ticket) so all those times I wasn't a resident and had to provide the agent at the airport in the US or Canada with proof of a ticket leaving Panamá. They would input stuff into their computer from my future ticket and I'd be set to go. Now when I fly back to Panama next month, I can tell them I'm a resident when they ask, but my question is, since I don't have a Panamaian Cedula but rather I have the temporary residency card from Migración. Will the agent in Canada give me a hard time? Will they still demand an exit ticket even though I technically don't have to exit Panamá anymore?

I saw this addition to the travel guideline and advisories from the Canadian government travel page for Canadians going abroad. I don't ever recall seeing this portion before. I haven't checked the American site yet though. 

I do wonder like most of you, how Panamá is finding out about the convications but in any case, who can blame them for being stricter on who they let in. If you don't have a record you have nothing to worry about. If you do...it's not Panama's fault. 

Like one poster said, had that person got their paperwork together before leaving for 30 days, they could have gotten a police record here by the Panamaian police and become a resident and not had to worry about this. If you have been in Panama for 2 years or more without leaving for more than 30 days at a time, you don't need a police record check from your home country when applying for residency, you can get one from the Panamaian police. I just wonder what would happen whenever you do try to re-enter using your Panamaian Cédula and American passport (if you have a record) if they find out about a previous record would they strip you of your Panamaian residency. 

Anyways, if you don't have a record you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure you all wouldn't want your home countries to allow people in with criminal records either. 

Can you really blame Panamá for denying entry to people with criminal records from entering their country? Regardless of how old the crime was? I certainly don't blame them. 

Im just wondering why they didn't stop them from entering at some point earlier in the last ten years?? 

2 hours ago, Siempre Soluciones said:

 Now I've been told that you're only allowed to obtain a ticket for the next step in your process, no more obtaining all of them early with low numbers.  This has drastically increased the time for processing.  I have a couple of friends that have stated that they were there from open to close.  I couldn't imagine.

And on one occasion we forgot to obtain a ticket for a specific window and my attorney asked me for $10 and purchased a low number ticket from someone they knew, I guess there used to be scalpers there!

Sounds terrible and very different from my recent experience last week. The day that I had to go with my lawyer she already had a ticket for me once I arrived. On the lower level of the migration building there is a line specifically for lawyers to get tickets for their clients, resulting in a lower ticket number. Saving their clients from the long ticket lines that tend wrap around and down the stairs. 

Once we finished at the window, I needed to get my photo taken which meant I needed to visit another "window" and for that needed another ticket. So my lawyer went again to the ticket line specifically for lawyers, and got my new window ticket for me. Again saving me from having to stand in the line for people without a lawyer. 

14 hours ago, Keith Woolford said:

I think you're all using the same lawyer, btw.  Someone else emailed me as well. M. C. perhaps?

Doubt it, unless "we all" are in Panama City like I am. 

1 hour ago, TwoSailors said:

Just checked with our attorney's office, their reply back;  "There is no time frame in which one must get a Panama Drivers license either with a Temporary or Permanent Visa." With this additional comment:

 According to the rules of transit once you are resident in the country with a immigration card you should automatically carry a Panamanian driver's license.

So who knows!

This is exactly what my lawyer told me as well! Once you have an immigration card you must have a Panamaian driver's license if you want to drive here. 

17 hours ago, Brundageba said:

You are correct and it's excellent advice to research more than one source.  That said, folks new to the country tend to trust their lawyer.  Our friend contacted his attorney from the USA after we informed him of the need for a multi entry stamp on his passport.  He immediately got on the phone with his lawyer and was told it was not necessary.  At that point his visa was still in the works and would have been possible. It's really unfortunate but our friend was in fact fined .  This is one of the problems new folks who are still working and closing up affairs in their home country face when they begin process and have to leave, come back & possibly leave again.  Having his car impounded was the final blow when he finally got here and was driving in his first couple of months figuring with his Jubilado Visa and a Florida Driver's license he was good to go. 

These things happen to the best of us....this man was no dummy.  He has a PhD.  He had good friends that advised him...yet still got stung......twice.

That's unfortunate, like I said take the advise of your lawyer but also do your own research. Luckily my lawyer did advise me right away that once ur status changes to a resident or even a resident "in process" you can no longer drive on a foreign drivers license. There is a special Panamaian license you can apply for if you really need to drive here while waiting for your paperwork to go through, I believe she said the cost was $40. After that once your paperwork has gone through and you have your final Panamaian ID then you can get the regular Panamaian drivers license. I think regardless of the country people should be diligent and do their homework on how everything works. Sounds like in the end things worked out for him too bad he had to learn the hard way. Best of luck.   

1 hour ago, Brundageba said:

Quite a few years ago my neighbor was just off the boat all ready to reside in Panama.  He had his Jubilado Visa in hand.  He was driving and was stopped.  The only documents he had on him were his Jubilado card and his Florida Driver's license.  He was less than 2 months in the country on this trip.   He DID not have his Passport nor did he have his Panama Driver's license.  His car was towed and he was given a citation for driving illegally.  It cost him some bucks.   If you have a Jubilado Visa you must drive with a Panama License. 

As well his lawyer told him a multiple entry stamp was not necessary to purchase.  OK so he left Panama after filing for Jubilado Visa went to the states to close his affairs there.  He returned to Panama and was fined $1200.00 for failure to have a multiple entry stamp on his Passport. 

He thought he had his ducks in a row...but did not. 

I'm not sure how it was a few years ago but I've just filed my papers for residency and on the 6 month provisional card they gave me after filing, it specifically says directly on the back if you leave the country with an application in process without getting a multiple entry visa you will be fine $2000 upon trying to re-enter. 

Ive found it's always best to do your research on your owe rather than just relying solely on what your lawyer tells you. Things change fast here and not everyone knows everything. Durining my process if I asked 3 different officials the same question, typically I would get three different answers. 

2 hours ago, MarieElaine said:

Has anyone applied for and received the 2 year Visa.  If so, could you share your experience with us please.

You mean the 2 year temporary residency card? 

Also under which class of residency did you apply under? The process would be different depending on how you are planning to obtain the residency. 

Has anyone found out what happens if you stay your full 180 days IF you entered BEFORE these new laws and rules were created?

Example: a person who entered the country let's say December 28th 2016 and stays here until their 179th day. What are their rules for reentry? 30 days out and they can come back? - the only info I've been able to find is if someone stays until their "5th month"

thanks!

How is one suppose to meet #2 of being in Panama for a year not leaving for more than 30 days if now they require tourists to be out of Panama for 30 days before they can re-enter? 

Yes I too would love some clarification. 

Is it if you exit on or before your "5 month" here the 30 days out of Panama rule doesn't apply and essentially you could return in a few days or a week even? But if you stay the complete 180 days "6 months", that is when you must be out for 30 days before returning? 

Or is it: if you make it to your "5th month" you must be out for 30 days, and if you make it to your "6 month" (180 days) you cannot return at all? 

I wish they could make things clear the first time. 

So if a tourist stays for the full 6 months, they must be out of Panama for 30 days before they can enter again? Or is that if you exit by the 5th month, and if you stay the complete 6 months you cannot enter again at all?

2 hours ago, Hil said:

I had never been checked at the Check Point headed back towards David before I got residency. Maybe they have been instructed to start doing so since they are "enforcing" their laws now. Thank goodness I got my Pensionado and Ecedula.

I live in Panama City so I am not sure how far into Panama you need to drive after entering at Paso Canoas to get to David but I would assume if people are suggesting him to go to Tocumen and he's driving he would take the same path we do. And about 20 or so mins (maybe a bit more)  into Panama there is a check point. This has been there for at least 4 years but I'm sure more. Sometimes bags and cars get inspected, sometimes just passports, and only one time, nothing was checked and we were just waved through. This check point is whether you are going or coming and whether you are in bus or car. 

Below is a photo of a checkpoint much further away from the border. Yes, there's two checkpoints between the border and the city. 

15 minutes ago, Woody said:

I don't have a clue what absolute truth on this is, but I do know several couples who have remarried in Panama to have their marriage legally recognized.  Good luck!

Was this because it's a shorter wait time for a marriage that takes place in Panama to be registered over one that took place in a foreign country? 

From what I understand even if they get remarried here there would still be some wait time until the marriage is registered at the "Registro Civil"

And they would need it to be registered before they could apply for her residency if doing so by marriage. 

If you just walk back across, How do you plan to pass the check point a few minutes down the road from the border crossing of Paso Canoas? There is a permanent set up checkpoint where the police check documents making sure you have entered. We have experienced this every single time. Whether going by car or bus, and only 1 time did they not look in our passport.

Surely you would have to pass this whenever you head to the city to go to Tocumen. 

While I believe Panama has the right to do what they wish with their country. I also find it very sad at the abruptness at which they are doing it. I honestly don't know how those who only had/have a week or so left on their tourist visa are/were managing.

I am about to begin the process for residency however I am worried that by the time I get all my documents together my tourist stamp will expire. Since I would be trying to get my criminal background check and other things from home while here because I'm in fear if I leave to go back to Canada to get them, they will refuse me entry when I get back. Which only leaves me the option to obtain those items while being here which of course adds weeks to the process. 

I feel it's almost impossible now to legalize your status unless you already had all your documents here waiting to go. 

Are they turning people away at the airports too? 

Hi, I was wondering how Canadians went about getting their police record check for residency purposes here. Did you get your finger prints done here and send them to Canada or did your go to Canada yourself and then come back after geting the police record and having it authenticated by the Panamanian Embassy in Canada? How long did the whole process take? 

Thanks! 

12 hours ago, Bud said:

Yes, and it is called the jubilado visa. But the jubilado visa is not without a cost in terms of time, money and paperwork, etc. Also note that it is a visa with an indefinite expiration date, as opposed to an e-cédula for fully documented and vetted permanent residency status.

Re the jubilado visa cost, to my way of thinking it is a reasonable cost (other than for the widely varying and sometimes substantial attorney fees). But then for some people, any amount could be a heavy burden.

Re the jubilado visa paperwork, there are medical reports, apostilled versions of vital records, etc. These all cost both money and time. Add to that the requirement for an FBI report (or equivalent agency report for citizens of other than the USA), and the associated fingerprints. The police report and fingerprints may be a big barrier. (For instance, Marcelyn has difficulty getting acceptable fingerprints because she handled so much paperwork in her professional careers; it took at least five attempts and many months and expenses before being successful.) Further, some resident aspirants, even though upstanding citizens, might have information that they either prefer not to divulge for personal reasons or that might cause them not to be acceptable to Panama's immigration authorities.

Everyone's situation is different.

Totally understandable. But in the same time, one surely couldn't have expected to be a tourist their whole life completely unaware that authorities may want to end this at some point. 

I think a lot of us got too comfortable and forgot sometimes we were in fact tourist. 

I guess it's time to weigh your options. How badly do you want to stay in Panama, for some it may be worth going through the process you mentioned or other options and for some it may not be.  

7 hours ago, MarieElaine said:

Law 591 states that Americans, Canadians, Brits and Australians need to leave the country every 180 days and all others only get 30 days.  It would be devastating to this area if they boot out all retirees living as tourists.  We bring employment and spend our pensions here without taking jobs from Panamanians.  Think of the trades people alone who would be out of work.  Most Central and South American countries encourage retirees to live in their countries and bring money into their economies.  Am I wrong?  Too much logic?

Doesn't Panama offer a special visa for retirees? 

I personally would be very nervous about exiting in Paso Canoas with the intention of renewing tourist stamp regardless of your nationality. Here is a paragraph directly from a news article posted from Telémetro News today. Where someone from Mirgration states that foreigners from ALL nationalities cannot remain in Panama as tourist their whole life. 

"El director del Servicio Nacional de Migración (SNM), Javier Carrillo advirtió este lunes a los extranjeros de todas las nacionalidades que no pueden estar en Panamá "toda su vida" como turistas"

http://www.telemetro.com/nacionales/Director-Migracion-extranjeros-pueden-turistas_0_1005499877.html

I just heard on a news interview on TVN, that this 90 day change is actually only for countries who require a visa to enter Panama. And that countries such as Canada and US still get their 180 days. Boy this is confusing. 

I am wondering with the change of the tourist visas now given for 3 months instead of 6, I'm wondering when I'll need to exit? I entered Panama on December 28th 2016 (before this change was announced) will I still get my 6 months or will I have to exit in 3 month?